ericb

He dropped off a load that wasn't to code after much prarie doggin he clean lost his noggin

The things they didn't teach us in engineering school....damn. Apparently your education skipped the discussion of homophones.

Don't suppose it is at all correlated with higher marriage rates in these same states.

Bible belt divorce rates are significantly higher as well. So much for family values. Source please?

Fuck if I know. I didn't design the species, I'm just one of them. The Supreme Court came up with a first trimester compromise. This seems to have worked well to consider the rights of all involved. There is only a religious answer to your question. There is no scientific one. Semantically, a fetus is a fetus until it's born. Then it's a baby. ~18% of babies born at 23 weeks (middle of second trimester) survive albeit many with severe complications so is it the age or the removal method that denotes "birth"? One form of removal is called "C-section" and another is called "abortion". So if it's pushed out the vagina, it's a baby, if it's pulled out of the vagina by something other than a forceps it's a fetus? If a baby born as early as 21 weeks has survived, should we then set the crime/right threshold at 21 weeks? Fetuses officially become babies at 21 weeks - sounds logical.

What is 'sacred' is a matter of religiosity, not public policy. First of all, aborting a fetus is not killing a baby. A fetus is an embyonic, or potential human, at the early stages not much different from the sperm and egg that produce it. We kill those all the time and no one says boo about it. For some reason, for some people (probably due to religion, in most cases) the moment the sperm successfully pierces the egg everything changes. Four dividing cells and the mother can't say 'hey, that was an accident, I don't to be a parent'? I don't buy it. Aborting a fetus is not the same as killing a baby, which has a life independent of the mother. Not allowing the termination of a pregnancy, however, is essentially forced parenthood. That is a human rights issue if there ever was one, particularly in an overpopulated world. In your opinion, at what point does the fetus become a human being?

hmmm...interesting.....what is your definition of consensual sex?

Great points..There's a book called "God's Politics" by Jim Wallis that discusses this in depth - He calls it "a consistent ethic of life".....and points out that neither political party has this. He extends it to militarism as well. I think the question of guilty vs. innocent begs the question of "according to who".....that judging this is God's, and not Man's domain. I think this is especially interesting as a parallel thread about Saddam's hanging is discussing the Barbarism of capital punishment. Why is killing a criminal barbaric, while killing a fetus is a "right". If life is sacred, then all life, babies, criminals....even terrorists is sacred.

AE - so are you saying that holding the position that the influencing of the sexual orientation of a fetus is wrong while at the same time holding that it would be OK to kill that fetus is a sign of intellectual enlightenment?

SF....perhaps there's an online Mothers of Preschoolers community you can join?

Have you ever put a crampon through your hand while soloing steep ice? Have you ever attempted to duffersitz on a free rappel? Just curious

so on a fuel/liter of water melted the whisperlight is more efficient, just slower?

at the risk of ghouling out, I have a serious question. I understand that dehydration can increase the risk of hypothermia....thick blood, for lack of a more elegant answer. I would guess that the necessary water consumption would vary by individual (some folks consume more water than others), and depend on availability of insulating layers, etc.

so is the XGK the way to go for winter...I'm getting by with my whisperlight, but it can be finicky

How about learning to use apostrophes you nitwit

this is a lame answer, but it probably depends on the stove, pot, whether there's a wind screen and/or other fancy heat exchanger type thingy's. I seem to recall that Titanium pots, while lighter, have less efficient heat transfer, and therefore use more gas to melt snow. There's some inflexion point where the weight saved on the pot is more than negated by the extra fuel required.

In Climbing Panther's recent post he surmises that more fuel might have helped Kelly's survival. Does anybody know if a stove was found in the Cave?

CC.com - "Redefining the Moral Majority"

simmadownna...this method while the least painful takes some time....he will likely not be castrated until ~ monday

OLY - two questions....is this true?...if so, how long would the last 20 feet have taken you?

It hard to believe such an opinionated person as yourself has let the liberals rape this site unchecked.

You might think about taking a basic climbing course through either a climbing club or guide outfit. It think some of the services around there (Exum???) include some climbing fundamentals training with their climbs (Grand Teton). This is typically the expensive way to go. Clubs (if they exist) are generally less, but spread out the training over more weekends. Pick up Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills, and probably an Avalanche safety book. If there's no clubs/classes there, and you have some $ and can take a couple weeks off of work, you can take a multi-day alpine climbing course through Mountain Madness, Alpine Ascents, etc. in the Cascades or elsewhere. These are typically 1-2 grand, but pack a lot of learning into a short period of time.

You can't see the gaters, but they are there

Looking for a lightweight winter/spring tent, and trying to decide between the Hillberg N2 and a Single Wall tent. Weights are pretty similar, and all are pretty spendy, so mostly focused on function. the HB seems pretty roomy in comparison, and includes a vestibule for the $450. But the larger footprint has pro's/cons. I'm thiking the double wall design is a plus in this climate. I'd welcome any comments or experiences.

POTM....you totally did the right thing in posting this TR, and I think you did it with the best intentions. It may well keep someone safe. It's probably not right for me to second guess what type of due-dilligence you went through on the trip. I didn't intend to flame you at all, and hope you don't take it the wrong way. I think the discussion that arose on the thread was very valuable as many have and will continue to use this board to find partners. I more wanted to point out that the responsibility for communication lies with both partners, not bash you. I've done some stupid things, and specifically have been guilty of masking my lack of experience with a climbing partner and it contributed to a very long day on the West Ridge of Forbidden Peak. We had a good civil debrief and discussion afterwards, I paid for some classes, and we've since had some great climbs together - lesson learned.