ericb

Wow...picked up on my self-deprecating humor...who says you are all brawn and no brains

twice as much as it should

Cool...I plan on French freeing a bit on Outerspace Saturday. I'm heading back on Saturday to try and shave 30 minutes off my personal best.

Intriguing points...but I'm not going to debate politics on this site with folks as they toggle back and forth between this thread and trying to help Archenemy decide whether or not to eat her mushroom...I'm just not. Not a good use of my time.

I don't need to think about it...it's a party line thing...that's the beauty of our system

Warning....both links require registration to view. This is nothing but a left wing conspiracy to get your email address and sell it to online marketing agencies - thus adding to their revenue, and further enabling the left wing media to spread their unpatriotic rhetoric and lies!!! IMHO that is

Thanks for the input....so if a person really wanted to throw down some coin, they could spend 11$ per biner and get Shrouded WC Helium biners (3 grams $3-4 more per biner)for the rope end and mitigate that risk at least...

I'm sure there's a thread somewhere on the web on this but.... I've built a bunch of "alpine draws" with mammut dyneema slings (24" tripled) and Trango wiregate biners. I'm more into alpine stuff than sport/trad cragging, and I like them because they are light, and have a lot of utility...extendable, etc. Where extension is not necessary, what are the pros/cons of using these vs. the standard straight-gate biner/bone/bent-gate biner quick draws?

munging together the info from two sites (tradrack and REI) will get you what you want if you do find a better reference http://www.tradrack.com/index.php?cPath=1_6_88 Available in 9 sizes, see specifications listed below for size / range / strength / weight: 1/3 = 8 - 14mm / 8.3kN / 64g 3/8 = 10 - 17mm / 9.8kN / 68g 1/2 = 13 - 22mm / 12.0kN / 70g 3/4 = 16 - 27mm / 12.0kN / 78g 7/8 = 19 - 30mm / 12.0kN / 82g 1 = 20 - 34mm / 12.0kN / 82g 1-1/2 = 26 - 41mm / 15.6kN / 120g 2 = 30 - 50mm / 15.6kN / 124g 2-1/2 = 36 - 58mm / 15.6kN / 136g

i never ever once in my life have ever claimed to be a good or experienced climber. but i sure as hell am an oppionated one well then we have something in common

case closed...why don't you pick a thread you know something about or go to bed

Muffy...how long did outerspace take you?

It took you 11 hours to climb 7 pitches. You dropped gear. You are proud of the fact that you didn't pull gear on a 5.7 handcrack in a face covered with huge chicken heads. People behind you had to "join forces" to get off of the face becuase you were so slow. You find it unreasonable for someone to show up at the base of the climb that should take 2-3 hours at 9:30 a.m. without a headlamp. You climbed so slow that it made people hate you and want to beat you up. Yes. You are clearly an experienced climber. i read this whole thred and i have to agree here with Choda (gaspi a gree with a relative newbie, i am so scared) most people can follow 5.9 off the couch. that is in no way hard climbing. i know this because i am a solid 5.9 follower. I am relitivly certin if i grew some balls i could lead a 5.9 crack. and dude I am a shitty climber. SHITTY. pppaahhhhllleeezzzeee if you have climed 11 multis this season and think thta 11 hours on 7 pitches is showing you are "experienced" i realy sugest you go back to mountie school. and let me point out that parties of 3 on a multie pitch is not imho smart. it is a pain in the ass to deal with all the rope management and it takes 3 times as long to climb with that one extra person. not a smart move. parties of two move quickly and cleanly when they are EXPERIENCED. to me it doesn't matter who is right or wrong or who was being the bigger ass or whatever, what matters it that you are all assholes for not paying attention to what was going on arround you. side note; paying attention to what was arround him caused a 20 something kid this weekend to save a motorcyclists life. he saw the accident happening and was backing away from it as the guy who was on the motorcycle slid to a stop under his fron tiers. that kid saved that guys life by noticing and reacting to the circumstances of another person. had he his head up his ass he would have killed the motorcylcleist. it is not a good idea to walk arround with your head up your ass. it has to smell up there ummm...didn't take us 11 hours, took us 9, and we took our sweet time...we were not the party of three....that was the slow group after us and they were made into a party of 3 by the team after them that wanted to get off the mountain (at 8PM). We were at the car by 8pm....do your homework muffy....if you are too lazy to read the thread, than just stay off of it

anybody seen Sampco?

Great climb...did it a few weeks ago...good going....FWIW, that 5.6 friction pitch is sketchy even when dry. I didn't lead it, but Blake thought it was scarier than any of the 5.8 on the route.

Unfortunately, thanks to the Starbucks drink, I left my secret weapon at the bottom of the climb

Who in the hell would haul a heavy bat up there with all them chickenheads? Speed is safety noob

agreed....would you loan your headlamp to someone to help them successfully negotiate the final pitches of a climb that you slowed them down on.....fully knowing that you would be giving them the tools necessary to kick your ass?

Hawkeye...devil's in the details.....it was the punk rock drummer stopping his buddy from kicking somebody's ass, and he intended to wait until the top of the route, not on the ledge. What I'd like to know is how he could see him to hit him without a headlamp.

Obvious lie...No way punk rock drummer would have talked is buddy down from kicking your ass

can we please dumb down the language...I shouldn't need a dictionary to translate anything in Spray

It was pretty obvious from our conversation that he was not aware of the mayhem that ensued in our little virtual climbing fraternity.....and he's probabably a better man for it...bless his heart

Dude...love the way you jump in without the facts....I think we are the team that is being slammed by some for taking our time...because we are newbies. We are not newbies....I said I was a moderate leader, but O/S was my 11th multipitch route this summer....my partner is a competent 5.9 leader with several years of trad climbing experience, and O/S is/was well within his abilities. I lead one of the four difficult pitches - the first headwall pitch which I did cleanly, no gear pulling, no gear rests. Postscript: I actually got a call from the team leader behind us a couple hours ago...I'd dropped a sling on one of the lower pitches, and we agreed that if they didn't catch us, I'd leave my cell# on his windshield for him to call me. We topped out at 5:40 - he and his partner topped out at 9:30 being belayed by a member of a team behind them who suggested they work as a team to get everyone to the top safely. I think they split up into teams of three to get to the top as fast and as safely as possible. Apparently that team did not have headlamps with them. Sounds like, at the end of the day, despite all the alleged animosity, they joined forces to get everyone up safely. People did not epic because I tried a climb that pushed my abilities. My pitch went fine. People had an epic because they showed up for a popular climb after 9:30 on a beautiful Saturday morning, and insisted on attempting the route....even though they didn't have headlamps....and then persisted even though it was obvious daylight was running out....and then didn't ask to pass, or offer to help a slow party in front of them until it was already dark. Then the real furor set in when the passive aggressive punk rock buddies got home and realized that with the six hours it took to descend in the dark, they could have driven all the way to the ORV park in Moses Lake and back and have themselves a dream weekend. Who can blame them for being bitter.

Thanks everyone for the input. I really do appreciate it. I took a look at the time stamps on my photos, and it looks like we got to the wall at 0715, and started the first pitch at around 0830...long story...blame the mexican food. We were at the top of first pitch when the first groups started arriving, and Sampco says the groups ahead were on the third pitch when they got there.....That would mean they were there probably 0930 or 1000 at the earliest? Does this sound right Sampco? Fern I appreciate your thoughts about crowding, and will certainly take them to heart, but I think your comment that it might not have applied in this circumstance is also true. I'm not trying to defend my climbing prowess...I'm a self confessed moderate climber, but I think a discussion of how you can safely increase the efficiencies on a crowded route like this is useful. We got to the top of P3 and waited for the team that passed us at the top of P1 (yes we waited for both leader and follower to pass us at the anchor) to clear out. The leader was just approaching the 5.9 crux when we arrived. Brian lead up, and the leader of the next team behind us arrived as he was just past the crux. This is a big ledge, and rather than setting up a tree belay for his partner further right on the ledge, he waited for me to pull up and start climbing so he could use the fixed piton/gear anchor....all this to belay his partner across class 4 ledges where a body belay could have sufficed. I think it's important to not crowd folks, but it's also important to think outside the box and make the system move as efficiently as possible. My photo at Library ledge is at 3:00, and Sampco says they were taking a break there at 5:30, so it took them 2:30 to climb P6. As far as our speed, from my admittedly self-protectionist standpoint, there's a difference between the statement "it took us 9 hours to climb it" and "we took 9 hours to climb it". We were admittedly climbing near the top end of our abilities, but to say we shouldn't have even been on the route is pretty presumptuous. I guess the question I'm left with is a philisophical question. If I can enjoy a day in the mountains with a good friend, and climb at a pace that both gets me down safely in daylight, and doesn't delay the teams behind me, why would I climb any faster? Sampco - your comment that speed is safety is pretty moot. We were eating Halibut with cream sauce at 8:30, topped of with ice cream at 9:45, and drinking Black Butte Porters in camp by 10:30 all while you fought your way down a pitch black unfamiliar descent. Sounds like judgement played a much bigger role in this fiasco than physical climbing prowess.

Thanks...and to clarify, we could have climbed faster, but didn't need to thanks to the guys behind us. We set a pace necessary to stay in front of them, and we were successful. We lost ~ 20-30 minutes overshooting the crack to the first belay anchor, took fifteen minute breaks at the belay after p4, another 15 minutes after P5, and another 20 minutes after p6. We also took our time starting p7, because we contemplated the unprotected 5.6 bypass for some time before committing. If we would have had someone hot on our tails, we would, and could have climbed faster. Don't assume that everyone else out there is just like you, trying to climb it as fast as possible....some of us like to enjoy the experience as well, and if you say speed is safety, then it's important to note that we made it back to the car without headlamps and were enjoying a Halibut dinner at 8:30. I did SW Rib of SEWS in 4 hours, and Cutthroat South Buttress C2C in 9 hours a month ago, so I've shown that I can climb fast when I want to. The reason we got up at 4:00 am is so we could enjoy the climb...and we did.