Raindawg

Off White...always thought you were a cut above such comments. I guess I was wrong. Just another ignorant member of the school-yard wolf pack! Enjoy it all, "moderator"! BTW: 5.15??? Usually a sport-climber's version of siege climbing. Rehearse,fall rehearse, fall, rehearse, repeat as necessary...weeks later (and time well spent! ), there y'go! Here comes 5.16!

"Date a sport-climber????? Eeeeooooooo! Dirty!!!! Go away!!!!" TRUE STORY!

You really like that, eh? Get's ya goin'? Blah!!!!

Truly weak, dude. Your comments speak vastly more about you than about me. I hope you are a much happier individual in 2010. Really! - Don

That's actually a fine profession, as is mine, but I consider my personal life (and yours) to be an unacceptable target of ridicule on a climbing web-site. Not only am I going to refrain from gratuitously ridiculing your job, I'm not going to make fun of your wife and children either.

Hey Jack-Donkey "El-Jefe" nicht: What's your amazing real-life profession? C'mon! Fess up so we can inappropriately ridicule it on a climbing web-site. What do you do for a living, eh big shot? What's that??? Embarrassed? Sit down, little, little man.

IT'S AN ENEMA BAG, FOO! Now get yourself one and use it!

Something especially for rap-bolters, Carry it on through the new year: Get it out of your system.

well ivan i think u would like to see gun's banned, RIGHT???? pope and dawg would like to see bolts banned. alan watts is like the sam colt of climbing... don't bring ur drills to town homeboy Banned? Wrong. HEAVILY RESTRAINED? Yes, in the sense they should be rare rather than ubiquitous and the exception, rather than the rule or norm. Alan Watts ain't my hero, but he certainly takes his place in climbing history!

Given that this topic is about Mr. Watts, and his impact on climbing....which is impressively overwhelming....the subject of the value, or lack thereof, of his "contributions" is utterly relevant. Partially as a result of what took place at Smith Rocks, some of us believe climbing took a very wrong turn. So, if all you want to do is forget history and pretend that everyone agrees, and those who don't should just shut the hell up, then this "Rock Climbing Forum" shouldn't be listed under "General DISCUSSION", but something more like "stifle the dissenters". Tired of the same old what-not? It goes both ways, but ultimately everyone has a choice as to whether to post, not post or ignore the whole dang deal.

Raindawg. You know I like you and respect you even if we disagree. But your statement does not jive. “It ain't all about "seeing them"? You got to be kidding? UH…..if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it fall….did it make noise? Same concept I believe. If you cannot see the bolts….then you don’t know they are there. Out of sight, out of mind, eh? So would it be O.K. for me to pick a vertical line somewhere and scratch my initials in the rock about every six feet or so? Nobody will see it unless they're right nearby and I can even make it smaller than a bolt hanger. How about if I carved my initials in the trunk of one of those beautiful larch trees up in the Enchantments...right below some of the lower branches where they'll be less visible? O.K. with that? Or how about a big 'ole Via Ferrata with the hardware colored to blend in quite a bit? What say?

i'm not sure what you are talking about with cubicle, since i haven't sat in one for a decade, but i'm glad you enjoyed your exciting adventure. what does the holy text of judaism say about grave-robbery, btw? it is all good, pretty much. i mean sure there are those who find something to complain about wherever they go, but i kinda like the "everything is perfect exactly the way it is, and there is room for improvement" approach. i think the the holy texts of judaism talk about this issue too, and how one shouldn't be bitter and whiny all the time (it's really a sin against god). i think even yahweh cracked a little smile, man. get over yourself; it's what god wants you to do. You are ignorant and wrong in so many ways. You bring religion into a bolting discussion as a form of personal attack. I'm surprised they allow you to post here given the nature of some of your recent comments.

No, dude...you get a scare-bear...for being one of the most disappointing posters on cc.com. Enjoy the award.

More like yap, yap, yap. Can't address the issues? Attack the messenger.

And what did you just offer with the comment above??? Answer: A WHOLE LOT OF NOTHING.

It ain't all about "seeing them"....it's about leaving your mark, or not. It's about minimal impact. There are very few bolted climbs at Vantage that couldn't be top-roped to avoid the mess.

Alan Watts initiated a tsunami of destruction, although he probably had no idea what he was bringing on. I, too, climbed at Smith in the late '70's and found it tranquil and adventurous. Do you really think that the crowds that have since infested the area, allured by bolted climbs, is an improvement????? Much of the crap left by thoughtless concert-goers can be readily cleaned up. Self-absorbed sport-climbers, however, have left a PERMANENT mess of their own. Ever go out their before it was sport-bolted? It was a beautiful place. Now it makes me want to PUKE! Here's a sample from your beloved Vantage: No, dude. You have no vision. The slowest backpacker has better ethics than the hardest sport-climber. Avoid leaving a trace. Get it?? Bolts should be the exception, not the rule. Sport-climbing is defined by them.

Post of the day. It's got Kevbone's endorsement!!! It must be correct!

Which one of them leaves a permanent trace? Change does not automatically equate with "good". Without trails or roads of some sort, one would be confined to one's dwelling. They are necessary, but they can be minimal. With their popular appeal, bolted routes actually have the affect of increasing traffic and trails. By the way, pope doesn't drive a Subaru...and air-conditioning has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I VERY seriously doubt it...very seriously. Only if they leave a trace! You need to get wise and be able to discern between "good" change and "bad" change.

I don't think pope or I have ever used the term "evil". Unethical?...probably. Irresponsibly unenvironmental?...certainly. It's sad to see the "leave no trace" ideal, seriously adopted by probably every other outdoor pursuit, abandoned for convenience and utter safety. A dumbed-down version of climbing attractive to mass consumerism? ....absolutely. Evil? That's another category altogether. There's no doubt that we're in the minority. Your poll would be a waste of time.

No, dude....just done with you and a few others similar. I've been away for awhile doing some exciting field work....enjoy your cubicle. Maybe there ARE things to complain about. Maybe you don't want to hear about it. Too bad. Keep your head in the sand and pretend "it's all good" with no dissent, just the way YOU WOULD like to see it. Looking for the punchline of an anti-Semitic joke? Poached right from another topic on cc.com: A real knee-slapper! Proud of yourself? B-bye!

I have no problem expressing my viewpoints face to face with anyone here...and I do on occasion. So, an unpopular perspective makes one "unserious"? BTW, I thinks it's great (and "safe") that Mr. Watts has appeared on this site. He should, however, be aware that even decades later, not everyone appreciates his "contribution" to climbing culture and history. (And it's not just two or three people...there are plenty of us.) But he's obviously capable of dealing with that fact. Perhaps you go to the wrong church. It's usually only quiet when people are praying. Were you worshipping? I always thought you and your wife were somebody...sorry to see that climbing affects you that way.