Raindawg

There's still several installed for top ropes at the top of the three tallest walls there, dawg. I guess if you were capable of climbing that high you would have seen them, they've always been there. But oh well. Keep practicing. Seems to me that there were some sort of U-shaped rungs...ain't that appropriate! Add some more if you like...it's a hunk of concrete with the potential for some good times.

Kindly share with us the location of your SPECTACULAR new and exciting bolted route so we can contact the land manager and learn if your "masterpiece" is acceptable...or are you afraid of the implications???? by the way, it's "psyched", not "siked". No, man....that just seems like a gratuitous throw-out comment to acknowledge that you knew "pope" way back when. Ain't you special! And oh, all them bolts at the UW rock! I was just out there a few days ago and didn't see a one! Where'd they go? Ask the local MAN if you can add some....I don't care...it's as artificial as it gets already. love, "raindawg"

You sound like Matt P. who used to lecture me about my style. Too bad. My style on this topic is “IN YOUR FACE”. If you don’t like it, or you feel it wins less converts, so what…I ain’t gonna convert your closed mind anyway, but at least people will be aware of the issue and its INTENSITY. (And by the way, I have won “converts). Thoughtful folk will consider both sides and make a choice, no matter who the spokesman might be. And yes, I have thoughtfully considered the typical current perspective in which sport-bolting is acceptable and have thrown it out the window as inferior. The fact is, many of you don’t like the implications of tossing your beloved sport-bolts to the wayside. “Leave no trace” is a mantra you’re willing to accept for backpackers but somehow it doesn’t apply to your climbing habits. Maybe because you think you’re “badder” and “hangin’ it out there” more than those wimpy hikers so the normal parameters don’t apply? Whatever. Sport bolting is the dumbed-down, low learning curve voyage to cheap thrills and the only reason land managers don’t complain is BECAUSE MOST PROBABLY DON’T KNOW ABOUT IT. And when they do, they’ll more than likely shut you down. Also, consider this: most of this crap takes place on PUBLIC LAND. I don’t want you putting up a delightful and convenient picnic table in the Enchantments, and I don’t want you putting up a delightful, convenient and permanent sport-climb up there, or anywhere else on MY land either. You'll hike out your candy-bar wrapper, and probably chastise others who don't, yet have no problem leaving a more or less permanent souvenir trail of your passing to be noted for generations to come, So, clean up your act on your own, or The Man WILL intervene. It’s on the near horizon. Read again what I wrote above. I would suggest that land managers are quite concerned when people are adding or subtracting to public or private property, especially without their full knowledge. If they knew the degree to which any jack-donkey can rappel off a cliff with a drill and leave a permanent metallic trail, I would venture to say that they would be appalled and would react. Leave little or no trace….most outdoor pursuits adopted that perspective years ago…the clean-climbing revolution had a great start but fizzled when seduced by the convenience and safety of sport-drilling which evolved/devolved into the status quo. (And it wasn’t all about the convenience of the new clean technology e.g. the clean ascents in Yosemite by Bruce Carson, Doug Robinson, Galen Rowell and others who set out to make an environmental point!) Is this above really that radical to you?? Really???? If so, then you’re way behind the times…you’re in a Dark Age… the average Boy Scout has a more clearly defined environmental ethic.

"Ivan" doesn't have a clue and I found his comments to be nothing more than another personal attack as my profession is not the issue here. But to answer your question, I make no connection between my archaeological work and modern climbing other than I use climbing techniques when I am involved in exploration. [Also, my involvement in climbing inspired me to write a scholarly study on ancient Egyptian rope-making e.g., how the stuff was made and out of what, etc.] I am not interested in "glorifying" the ancient Egyptians. They were very interesting and I enjoy uncovering their "mysteries", but I'm pretty sure ancient Egypt is a place where I wouldn't want to live 3000 years ago. I have no interest in apologizing for or promoting their past activities. They did what they did and are part of human history and some of their interesting cultural debris is worth saving and conserving as part of that history. Again...I don't make a connection. My climbing views are based on how we, as individuals TODAY, choose to impact our environment. You seem to think it's a matter of visual scale, that a bolt is miniscule when compared to, say, the Great Wall of China. To me, scale is not the issue...as I just said, it's how we choose to impact the environment, and for me, I see a minimal impact/clean climbing ethic as the best way to address the outdoors. "Pack it in, pack it out". Place your gear, strive to take it back home with you. Leave it clean for the next guy. Bolts therefore should be rare (and safe). I don't want to see your pile of granola bar wrappers at the base of the wall and I don't want to deal with your closely-spaced metallic garbage, especially on crags that can be readily top-roped. And better yet, maybe some folks will learn to develop the discipline to just leave a crag alone rather than sport-bolt it. You like to mention the Apron at Yosemite...I've never climbed on it but from what I understand, the bolts are generally widely spread which makes for both challenging climbing and lesser impact. And then there are some who try to smokescreen the issue by taking note of the impact of highway projects and ski areas. You can fight The Man on that if you want but there is one thing you can control, and that is YOUR OWN conduct and impact...and that includes the ethical choice as to whether to permanently alter the environment, at whatever scale. Sell-out.

it's only horrible if you're not huffing raw ether and amyl nitrates while adding yer own inanity to the spray-stream Is that from one of the synoptic Gospels? Maybe, Acts? "Acts" is: 1) not one of the synoptic Gospels, and 2) not one of the Gospels. So....go on-line and get your GED before spewing out your Biblical ignorance and spouting out big-boy words like "synoptic".

You know neither my parents nor my "spiritual teachers" and if you did, you would know that their only disappointment would be that I waste my time responding to the likes of you.

That doesn't sound like it would be very fun. If what I've experienced from you here is any indication, I don't think we'd get along at all. (Are you that desperate for climbing buddies??? I'm not.) Maybe you'd have a better time with Choada Boy, Kimmo and maybe even Ivan and you can all have a gas-bag competition.

see, this is the problem: you have a solipsistic view of climbing, and that's why it seems people have the frustration they have with you. you project your personal internal perception outwards, universalizing it into a broad ethical maxim: "THE Climbing Experience has been demeaned, I Proclaim!" (Not A climbing experience, or MY climbing experience, but THE (universal) climbing experience!). It's my perspective (and not mine alone)....feel free to disagree. I'm well aware of the other viewpoints and after weighing their merits, I'm still oppossed to certain things. You seem as dumb as the rest, but with a bigger vocabulary. Go sit in the corner with your buddies....maybe you can trade more insults in Finnish.

Sophisticated use of the English language!!! P.S. What do you do for a living?

Constructing elaborate tombs for self-professed "Gods" to guarantee passage into an afterlife is indeed nothing more than human vanity at its worst. Got anything you want to say about sport vs. trad climbing? Put it on, dude....put it on!

No, the connection between my archaeological project in the Valley of the Kings and the behavior of modern climbers is both unclear and ridiculous. ONCE AGAIN, YOU ARE ONLY SHOWING YOUR PROFOUND IGNORANCE. Is the Valley of the Kings a "monstrosity" of "human vanity"? I suggest that you know very, very little if anything about Egyptology and modern archaeology. YOU ARE IGNORANT. Do I "adore" the Egyptians? Do you know my opinion on the subject one way or another? No, you don't. Again...YOU ARE IGNORANT. Is this a hypocrisy debate? No, it isn't. If you have something of substance to say, try addressing the issue [sport vs. trad] rather than attacking the messenger of the perspective you resent and foolishly displaying your lack of knowledge in so many ways. Tell us what you do for a living so it can be irrelevantly forced into an "discussion" about climbing ethics, or so that your personal profession can be absurdly twisted to form an accusatory smokescreen of hypocrisy. Or you can add your name to the growing list of people who invoke my personal profession to attack me on a climbing web-site, yet are too embarrassed to reveal their own. Here....put this hat on:

What does my profession (which you clearly don't understand), my role in my profession (which you clearly don't know much about nor understand)or the ancient Egyptians have to do with climbing practices in 2009? The answer? NOTHING. Your comments involving my work are nothing more than a cheap, irrelevant personal attack suggesting that you resent both my climbing perspectives and me as as a person, and indicate that you have little of substance to offer. Nor do you fully understand my position on bolts (the short version: they should be rarely used.) Did you make that one up yourself? I know several people who are sport-bolters and some of them I like. Do I like what they do? Not particularly. Now run along li'l bully!

You sound as ignorant as Choada_Boy. Maybe you are Choada_Boy. So...what do YOU do for a living that we can bring up in this topic and ridicule? Nothing very interesting, I imagine.

If you have half a brain, you consider the consequences before "hitting it". If you're a caveman, you see the closely-spaced bolts, you consider their convenience at the expense of the finite rock environment and you whip out your quick-draws and "go for it". If you're contemplative, you walk away or top-rope the route in protest, or you look for the clean route nearby rather than taking the cheap way out.

I guess you neither read the "murder of the impossible" essay and/or have no respect for one of the most progressive climbers of our day.

Off... Sport-climbers have demeaned the climbing experience by plastering the rock with artificial accessories rather than using bolts VERY sparingly or avoiding them all together if a route can be top-roped, etc. or better yet, just leaving it alone. So if I'm deprived of a "first ascent experience", it's because I'm appalled by the callous lack of restraint in bolting that has become the status quo. By the way, the Bacher-Yerian route is an excellent example of restraint in bolt usage. I suppose they could have made a sport ladder out of much of it but they didn't. Billcoe....I'm way busy....ain't got time for a rude pissing match right now so I'm spending my free three minutes responding to Off.

MJ? Would that be this guy?

I dont think any of us really do. I think you, of all people, understand exactly what I preach. You just don't like its implications.

Yah...I have a question. What do YOU do for a living??? Since you're obviously embarrassed of your profession because you won't come forth, does anybody out there know this guy and want to share? He seems to have no problem ridiculing my vocation on a climbing web-site.

Do you really know what it was meant to do??? I don't think so, Kreskin. It was meant to bring up a topic (in a fun way - watch the video) of which I am very passionate about. Don't like it? Can't address the topic? Then ignore it. You're really not very bright. Again, what is it that YOU do for a living? P.S. You obviously don't understand what I preach.

That's a pretty extreme response. Some of you guys are really, seriously, warped. Hey robot...you post a picture of "Hitler" yet you yourself want to ban people with alternate perspectives. Think about it. And think about this: a) if you can convince the moderators to ban me for my viewpoints, go to it! b) you don't have to listen to my sh*t...no one is making you do it...turn the channel and/or don't respond. See above.

No, dude...the future is going to judge the current legitimization of sport-climbing as a Dark Age in which the "leave no trace" ethic, adopted by most outdoor pursuits during the last 40 years, has been recklessly ignored for convenience and self-gratification. And mostly on public property....enjoy it while it lasts, because it's not going to last forever. P.S. It has nothing to do with being "bad ass"...I also face climb just fine.

Sport climb-bers = the dude in da Lizard Suit. [video:youtube] The future gonna judge you sportos as mighty primitive!

Dudes....why do you persist? You're spending your precious time and wisdom on topics ranging from alpine experience to Taco Bell to a: You musts gots more times than me! Suckas!