Raindawg

I guess you haven't read John Long. Rescuers find dead guy. Rescuer1=>Rescuer2: His jacket looks like it might fit you. There's a HUGE difference between making impersonal jokes about scammin' gear and saying “good f*&king riddance he’s dead, really”. In its context it seems to me that she was trying to show off how tough and hip she was by being both over-the-top callous and demonstrating her "politically correct" credentials [“He was a Republican, right-wing Christian, good f*&king riddance he’s dead, really.”] Whatever...what a disgraceful thing to write about yourself and what a horrible long-lasting memory of the deceased...a record in print for all to read! I'm surprised the Mountaineers published this thing. Will this be their first in a series of foul-mouthed personal confession books?

Well you're a jerk. No I'm not, you're the jerk! Blah, blah, blah Airin' you're filthy laundry for all to see! Classy!

Anybody read the new book, "Pickets and Dead Men" by former Mt. Rainier climbing ranger Bree Loewen? In my opinion: very well-written, a few good adventure/rescue stories and some nice descriptions of my favorite mountain, but mostly self-pity and whining. I recommend it for people who really enjoy Rainier but gee whiz, even the people she seems to like are described in unflattering ways! Am I missing something here??? P.S. I wish her the best of luck and the "Afterword" seems to suggest that she's happy now doing other things.

By the way, the girl on the right invented "Post-It Notes".

I think the dude who put them in there should have a revelation and chop them himself...and he's so dang proud of himself that he had someone take pictures of it all. I ain't got the time or money to mess with that myself. They aren't. Leaving stuff up there of any kind is littering. It ain't the size of the litter, it's the principle. At least you can pop old pickets out of the snow and haul down "tat" and other garbage. Speaking of installing permanent anchors on big mountains, I seem to recall a number of years ago that there was another guy (Larry Penberthy?) who was advocating enhanced safety measures on Mt. Rainier and suggested that some sort of railing be put up on Disappointment Cleaver....like bolts on Everest, another way of dumbin' it all down for the masses.

LAME! PEOPLE BE CLIMBING EVEREST FOR FIFTY YEARS NOW WITHOUT THEM BOLTS. ADD A FEW AND MAKE IT EVEN DUMBER AND SAFER FOR THE MASSES ....hmmmmm....kinda reminds me of sport-"climbing"! WEAK!

This debate is like arguing whether to break a window with a rock or with a baseball bat. Either way, you're wreckin' somethin!

How do you think King Tut feels when you rape his tomb? Just asking....... Is that all you can come up with? Try to pick a fight with the messenger? What does King Tut gotta do with climbers junkin' the rock other than tryin' to smoke-screen the issue. This be Cascade CLIMBERS.com....not King Tut in yo' face.com. Get a grip, dude....focus, now stick with the issue....we're talkin' rocks and what people do to them on a climbing web-site.

Common courtesy? You guys don't even respect the rock. Rap, scrub and drill (and maybe siege-rehearse the "route" into submission)...you think that's respectful? Y'all be bitchin' 'bout the best way to rape the vertical environment.

Seeya at Smith! Clip....'n.....GO!!!!

"anybuddy wanna go sport-climbing???"

You wanna good time??? LET'S TALK 'BOUT THEM BOLTS! it's all about "the aloha".

On-line tick-list? Sounds like an excuse for competitive grand-standing and schlang-measuring. Here's some ideas: a) memory....have you really done so many climbs that you can't remember which? ("Was it Rainier or Denali.....I often get the two confused...they both have snow on them.) Get some of that ginko whatever that helps you remember things. b) pencil and paper. works like a charm. Maybe a dedicated notebook or new fangled software program. c) trip report. Share the chest-beating in such a way that others can decide if they want to repeat the experience.

Check out these interesting insights on abandoment of property that can be applied to people leaving quick-draws (pp.12-13 has an interesting summary): The Return of Lost Property According to Jewish & Common Law: A Comparison

Micah...that confession was a bit much. Were you raised in a North Korean re-education camp? Here's my two cents: a) leaving draws on a route, in my opinion, is selfish and poor form. The sport bolts are bad enough but leaving junk attached to them to return at one's pleasure is rude and laughable, no matter who one thinks they are. 2) that being said, taking the property of others, unless it is clearly abandoned, is a kind of stealing. (and in this case, given the stupid practice of leaving draws, it's likely someone would be coming back for them). In your case, you seemed to be well-intentioned, but hadn't thought through some of the implications. If it were me, on principle, I'd probably clean the junk left hanging on the bolts, link them together and leave them at the bottom of the climb indicating that they weren't intentionally abandoned yet at the same time keeping the "route" clean for others. So, give the gear back if you can and maybe this incident will inspire people to consider how they treat a climbing area and how they deal with other people's property.

Thanks for proving my point that it isn't all just a bunch of crack-smokin' Gorge concert-goers that are trashing Vantage. Climbers are certainly playing a role. Apart from the self-righteous grid-bolting "creationists" who leave their permanently affixed garbage every few feet, you got your brush-burning maniacs, indiscriminate crappers (some with their crapping dogs), and granola-bar-wrapper leavin' "climber/outdoor environmentalists" who LEAVE THEIR TRACE as a regular mess at the base of some of those FANTASTIC "climbs". Makes...me...wanna...HURL!!!

I guess you know it all then. Good luck! And for the rest of you, you knew this was coming so just let me get it out of my system. Behold, the elusive BLT's at the Exit 38 Deli....so many choices!:

Brother Checat: I think you must be new around here. I've spent years promoting a clean-climbing ethic and bolt-restraint on this web-site only to be pissed upon over and over again. Do a search under the topic of "bolts", "BLT's". (Also, do a search about bolts under the posters "Dwayner" or "pope", the two most vocal advocates.) It's a topic that threatens many people because they think you might be taking their dumbed-down, sanitized fun away if you have any leverage with your ideas. Trust me, these guys are being tame with you. My suggestion: let it be known that your crag is to remain bolt-free and if any bolts show up, get out the crowbar. Also, do a search in cc.com on "Dan's Dreadful Direct", a climb on the mostly bolt-free Castle Rock in Leavenworth...it's a good example of the controversy of someone adding bolts to a trad crag followed by their removal. And if you want to be really annoyed, read the many posts dealing with the attrocity known as "Infinite Bliss". Also, "Dishman". These are just samples and all of these "discussions" will give you a better idea of the ins and outs and volatility of the bolting discussion that will better prepare you for your uphill battle with the so-called climbing "community". Keep up the good work! And here's a link for inspiration: Chouinard Catalog 1972: the classic clean climbing statements Read especially, "A Word", and "The Whole Natural Art of Protection."

There's a good lesson in that movie...especially when they do the aerial views of the slums. The most down 'n out hobo in America lives better than that and much of the world doesn't. Watch that film and be humbled. No matter how crappy you think your life might be, most of the world lives crappier.

On a real busy day, some of the folks in Goldbar and Sultan will sit in their yards with beer and enjoy the mayhem. A few times we've pulled off, bought some beer and joined them...and we were welcomed...and waited for the traffic to die down and then went home. Good times!

Cabbage???? Is that slang for "money"? Sign me up!!! People like to throw stuff off anything high....pennies off the Empire State Building....and then there was that guy who trundled a rock off the Diamond???? and hit a climber and killed him? A few years ago, I was soloing Saber on Castle Rock in Leavenworth and got off route near the top on some small, scary and exposed holds, and then rocks came whizzing by my head...big rocks...scared the daylights out of me...they were hitting the trees below and breaking branches. Worse yet, there were a couple of novice climbers below trying their first leads. I gained my composure and went to the top where some dumb-donkey dude was actually kicking rocks loose on the summit for the purpose of tossing them. I told him that he's probably killing people down below and then ran down to see how the new folks were handling it. They were both in a dihedral, hunkering down, and terrified for their lives. People like to throw things off anything high....they act first and think later....it's very primal.

This takes a lot more talent! And when she turns around to greet ya', she looks like Ernest Borgnine's twin sister!

Hey CollinWoods, you decide: A gratuitous agressive comment on my style of humor: and, a gratuitous ignorant and insulting comment about my profession as an archaeologist: I can counter with, a) when were either of them funny? b) what are their aloof fancy professions that they feel so confident that they can ridicule others on a climbing web-site? Why???

You gettin' all stupid some mo? Back to work, now...the orders are piling up and you're back there with your supervisor saluting a clown! Red alert! Cola-spill in the play area!

You gettin' all stupid again? (see below from Sept. 08) You can not see the hypocrisy here? The Valley of the Kings is itself a blight on the natural environment. Men raped the rock there carving stairs, hallways, and rooms in the earth. Then when the earth reclaimed this land, men came again to rape the rock again. And you are participating in this carnage. And you cry your crocodile tears about bolts? Your reply wins the "Neanderthal of the Week Award" for sheer, sub-educated ignorance. You may collect your trophy from the Yeti in the steam caves on the summit of Rainier, if you ever make it that far. Uh oh! Here comes the boss! You'd better slap that paper hat back on your coconut and dump some of them frozen onion rings in the fryer before the noon rush! [img:center]http://www.gonzalobarr.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/dumb-neanderthal.jpg[/img]