bwrts

for the most part, No one owns any of the rock so if you so desire go bolt the fucker into submission you tweakers. Afterall, the president wants all to be safe! Rumr stfu before I send my army of darkness to make your life hell. OR ask my office to get more calcs from you so you will never leave your PC again... BTW, Darryl, I have climbed the entire Fault route twice in the last two years but I did not scrub it to make a path to salvation so perhaps it looks unclimbed still. Sorry.

FYI DARRYL (a previous post by "bwrts" clarifying the fault/squeak relationship): Perhaps you are drunk mr cramer. I was merely implying there are good routes that start from the dirt on LC that are dirty as hell and have old fixed protection....sheesh man!

the bolts are recongnizeable and useable to the fact that they guide the rope to the next gear placement, so cocoa whatever....this entire bolt or not to bolt chatter really is creating some good hate. In all seriousness, Fred does not give a flying fuk as he has many more peaks to bag before all us poor suckers quit bickering and even get off this stupid chat forumn. He is in the Sierras and if you all want I will ask him the next time he decides to check his mail. If you do pull the bolt and replace it with a shiny new bolt, (I bet) it will be yanked, not by me (as I have other time wasters in mind), but by someone else.....

I bet you are a person who thinks all people in motor vehicles need to wear a seatbelt too! Sorry, that someone beat you to the punch and climbed the route before you and did it in minimal impact style to the rock. Sorry that you are not up to the same crazy head game that the FA, went thru to accomplish his stupid human trick. Sorry that you have to lead the route and add fixed gear for yourself to get up the bitch, safely. If you can not lead the thing, then TR it...sheesh! Geek, people report FA routes for various reasons. to share with other friends... to show other people what has been climbed... to keep the guidebooks growing thicker... to get their name in the guidebook... and probably other reasons but who cares why they do it. Rock Climbing is scary, and do not pretend it isn't. DC, I now realize the confusion. Catapult is an extension of the (geologic) and true Fault line. So, the Squeak is to the right. However, in my mention of climbing all routes to the right of the Fault, I was merely referring to the first pitch of the Fault. The rest of the "real" Fault route does not conitnue up via Catapult but turns to the right and climbs up scrappy ledgy bushy rock to the ledge where Squeak and other routes start. Then the Fualt continues around traversing to the right, following the obvious weekness to Loggers Ledge.

If the route was indeed aided on the gear that in now in place, then the extra bolt is not needed. I mean, really since the aiders didn't need a bolt, why should free climbers? I do think the buttonheads should be upgraded, those are crap and there is apparently no available gear placement. But, the other bolt, hard or not....just headpoint the bitch! Also, I am not that impressed that Peter remembered moves of this particular route. He told me during the one time I met him that he loved climbing in Ltown. However, I do ask... did you say Steven's Pass Motel and he immediately went into his description of the climbing or did you prod the cow, so to speak??? (by no means am I implying croft to be a cow.) EDIT: adding to clarify DC and my argument (in ethics thread) of what I have climbed and not climbed on Castle by the fault, if anyone other than DC cares... The confusion: Catapult is an extension of the (geologic) and true Fault line. So, the Squeak is to the right. However, in my mention of climbing all routes to the right of the Fault, I was merely referring to the first pitch of the Fault (which many modern guidebooks only show). The rest of the "real" Fault route does not conitnue up via Catapult but turns to the right and climbs up scrappy ledgy bushy rock to the ledge where Squeak and other routes start. Then the Fualt continues around traversing to the right, following the obvious weekness to Loggers Ledge. In my statement about climbing all the routes to the right I was referring to Blood Transfusion, Clean Love, Aids victim, the other yoder route, and Flying Frog...all without re-cleaning or retrobolting....I may have forgotten one other, but really who give a flying pig fuck? So you see Darryl, perhaps even you are guilty of jumping to conclusions and creating turmoil on this so called cascadeclimbers spray site. No where did I claim to have climbed the stupid roof crack of Squeak and now you have Rudy hating more than ever.. RumR enough with PM abuse!!!!!!!! YOU FAHQeR!!!! oh, btw mr rumr, my boss called and he needs those numbers so get to work you lazy ass engineer!

The route was originally AID by FRED. freed by (I think) another party....but really....in material. Bolt is there, rusty and why waste time to replace mank so far away from the car... plus, this is in the wilderness.

No shriek is down by Brass Balls. Squeak is by Gorilla Desparado.... I heard croft and yoder did this squeak route but using a flake of some-sort, which skinner avoided using. Consequently, contriving a harder way to climb the aidroof and then renamed the climb. So, there is a route. And this is really swaying from the intention of this so-called ethics thread. IS ethics DEAD?!?!?! Where is the PETEY PUGET intervention?

Upon my second look at the pics, it appears I am mistaken... the crack that makes up the last pitch of the joust is to the left. I will ask my friend who spent more time in/getting to the OW that makes the joust so jousting.

Fred is the King Mountie and ripping on mounties is like ripping on Fred, which is like ripping on your grandpa.. shameless. EDIT: BTW-I am not saying ScottP is ripping on Fred. Just merely adding coal to another fire.

Squeak of Humiliated (skinner's freeclimb of the aidroof) is not right of the Fault, Darryl. It is above the Fault and to the left a bit. The Fault, specifically, is the 5.6 chimney... however, the route does continue thru the dirty ledgey bushy rock to the big roofed ledge where squeak, croft and yoder's way to do squek, idiots delight, bird nest overhang, and other? routes start... The Fualt does continue to Logger's Ledge via cool traversing crack never really harder than 5.6.

This goes for any lost people on mazes in the woods too. Offer help, give intoxicants and send them away. Anyrate, Way to send the shit- Ateam.

I asked Fred, and he said leave the bolts as they be...rusty or not. If you do not trust do not use. If you have any other complaints then talk to Fred... If you can catch him...Fast Freddy is now back in the Sierras.

I do not care where people climb... Castle is a favorite crag of mine and other people, too. The views of the river and other crags is hard to beat...the road sucks tho. As for the two castle routes you mention, well...it sucks they don't climbed often, I guess. They are hard for most climbers and really look silly, IMHO. I do hope to try them sometime and a few others on L-C. All the routes right of the fault, I have done and all are fun but they also do not get climbed often. Most people, climb Mr Clean, SMUT (since 1/4 bolt replaced), The Fault and sometimes Clean Love. The Flying Frog route to the far right is cool just dirty as hell but then that was cool too! Reminds me of being on a FA, just deal and go. As for the two resurrected routes at Index...that is cool that they were found and lost and found and apparently (upper JG) lost again to moss and lichen. Perhaps they should just be left for the dirt....and climbers who are willing to deal with the dirt. In all actuality, don't you think if a hard route gets more traffic, the grease from multiple ascents will make it "unfun?" My issues with retrocleaning are only really with "inacan"s choice in deciding he should clean a "forgotten classic" in the middle of the summer when most people have random work schedules or aftenoons available to go climbing. He should have done his work in the off-season. As for adding bolts to make the rockcimbing safer, I think everyone who reads this bickery knows my stance... if there is gear-potential the dont drill the hole...

I have not done this route, yet...I have looked at it from the Flame and did notice it looked thin to the start. There are lots of routes in the Leavenworth area with scary runouts...go to goat dome or givler's dome if you need examples... Furthermore, your original post implies Peter does not remember the start to this particular route... For god's fawking sake, he did the route like 20 years ago and I do believe has climbed a "Few routes" after that. So, really by asking him if he feels a flake broke or some other excuse is dumb. Likewise, the responses of people who do not lead 5.12 are very valid and saying that they are not is fuking selfish. Also, if the person you claim that has repeated the route "20x" has any validity they will post their opinion to this thread. Like TimL says: I bold the last statement because this is as true as the sky is blue and the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Finally, if you want to do Midnight Rock a favor then fix the fucked up bolt-job on Yellow bird...

There is a tree (maybe two) and tall bushes there...so, the ledge is no longer "treeless"... Must have been quite the sight... Fred with a saw and large trees falling down lower castle.

brilliance from a llama! Please leave the bolts as is....there is plenty of gear above and below these 1/4" rusty bolts. And I do believe there is plenty good belays above the bolts Selkirk mentions...just stretch the rope a bit more...

Not to be nit-pickey but Geek the Greek is wrong about the "treeless" loggers ledge on castle. However, I do agree about the overcleaning of routes and boulders being rediculous. One can climb a route without removing ALL the vegetation. I don't have many years of backing experience (~14years now) but, I do believe the "sport-era" sped up the overall impacts that Geek and MattP mentions. I mean, back in the day, most the stuff in the Icicle was considered worthless choss and unsignificant... so why bother. Also reclaiming old forgotten routes is the sortof the same thing; if the routes were good then why didn't they get climbed thru the years. Even though they may be right next to some classic. Obviously, the route is not that good so it was not repeated often. And I am not referring solely to Index....

From the looks of your pics, it appears these gents were on the last pitch of the Joust. CB, if you know them, inquiring minds want to know. TIA-

nice work gents! but, really I am confused.... did you actually cross "washington pass" on your traverse?

My friends went up near this recently and said at the base of the real climbing it looked like such a pile of shit they pulled the plug and went home. Sounds to me the peak should have been named Sleezee.

oh lance, you will be home soon again. nice work on the cleanup and really the mess is not only in your area. people don't care about how their trash affects other people even in the chumstick.

winter, okay that is excusable

vantage bolter going drill crazy= pogue

yeah the quartzite is hard and there are lots of cracks so why bolt is what the locals decided on... the sandstone quarry wall is where the wars occurred, from what I remember talking to locals there when I was there last. I plan on going this labor weekend as I am visiting my grams and gramp then... I will ask some more if I do make it up there. Also, the bold routes in Eldo were put up bold and remain bold. I remember a R&I or Climbing Rag depicting such routes a few years ago... also may have mentioned Black hills, SD areas.

unemployment compensation is all the fukin rocks you boys get to climb. so FO!