JosephH

I understood the lines to be like this. But then the Third Rail came about because I didn't understand the lines and Jim couldn't rememeber them either.

That can't be right as the next dihedral to the right is the Third Rail which tops out by traversing over the top of the larger dihedral in the picture to the anchor.

It's funny just how terrified most folks are of questions without answers. It's equally amazing at what they will invent to fill that void. Add a lack of education and healthy dose of fear and they will believe almost any claptrap from Jove to Jesus. Has all that much changed from the days of the Roman Empire?

Again, I didn't comment on R-71 or your position on it - I only commented on your outrage - which part of that are you missing?

Funny, I don't think I commented on any asspect of R-71, only your outrage (pretty much all a bankrupt right has left to peddle these days - indignation and outrage - no doubt as effective as ever with their discerning base).

Where?

Are you also outraged by anti-abortion groups as well? They don't seem to agree with your assessment of the effectiveness of the tactic relative to their cause. At least gays won't be assasinating anyone through their kitchen windows.

Do give a shout when you know you're headed this way. Good luck on your trail work...

Bill sticks it here. If you have the skill set of a Guatemalan day laborer, you're not going to get paid much more than one even if you live in Portland. And going forward, if your work product, regardless of what it is, can be delivered by clicking a mouse, then you're going to be competing with the entire planet. The only way the U.S. will compete is on the basis of skills and we've been doing a lousy job imparting those to the majority of our population for some time compared to the rest of the industrialized nations.

The only reason I know those names or own the guidebook was so I'd be able to talk to Opdycke when I was replacing the anchors and when I've been cleaning out the columns lines (like the two weeks of trips it took to reclaim Flying Circus). And when I say "not being much into names or ratings at this point", I mean I wouldn't bother naming and certainly not rating a line I put up. Particularly the ratings, I've gotten to where I really couldn't care less, partially because I suck as bad at figuring out ratings as I do at guessing people's ages. Kevin, which part of why I added the bolt didn't you get? Yeah, if there was no guidebook there would be no problem with non-locals getting sucked a decking situation on RR. For a guy that wants to add bolt to YW p2 for your own use I'm not sure what your point is. I've never been into guidebooks because all of them contain the info you can figure out for yourself and none of the history which you can't. That and pretty much every line the crew I came up with touched was an FA due to the fact climbing didn't hit SoIll until John Gill came through on a cross-country trip in the 60's. And guidebooks, like chalk, are just another addiction and most folks get dependent on them and never develop the ability to walk up and be able to accurately map their abilities to a line (existing or new) by sight. For me the whole point of going to a new area is to walk up and pretend it's never been climbed, eyeball it, and get on whatever catches my eye - the last thing I want to know is what's been climbed or how hard things are. I do like looking at them after I'm done climbing to see how what I thought about the lines compared to the what the locals thought. I don't know whether the line left of the towel I was referring to has been TR'd or led before. It looks like takes pro so I'm guessing it wouldn't have been one of the unbolted TRs pink was referring to, but you never know.

Dunno, when are you coming up here next...?

Hey, I even didn't name Menopause let alone name that traverse. And I've got to admit to not being much into names or ratings at this point.

I've done that traverse from Dod's to F.S. - it's got to be one of the most ridiculously stupid things I've ever done on rock. Directissimo, baby (but that wasn't in the cards bitd)... Talked with Dean last week, but back when we did talk about FS he didn't have much to say about it other than he could still remember which bolt he put in the first anchor and which one Kim put in. Also talked with Kim about two months ago, he didn't remember much about the routes so much, but rather more about Dod & co. hijinx and how climbing evolved for him and Dean once Dean got back from his first trip to the Valley.

FYI - Someone was asking about adding anchors to Youtlkut Pillars over on RC.com - I mentioned they ought to post up over here... http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1679307;page=unread#unread

Well, there you go, not being much of a fan of guidebooks I tend to just look at lines my own way. Why wouldn't the chimney be the way up off of 'Iron Maiden' which tops out at essentially the same place as Flying Swallow or any other route that tops out on upper grassy ledges. Well, we'd have to see how many times old men like you paused leading the route to know how well it's named. So far Shane and I are the only ones who've led it to date.

The chimney above Flying Swallow does. I don't really consider that part of the route so much as just a way off upper grassy ledges.

I go up it fairly regularly, it's decent line where you have to engage your brain. And if you can't get up it comfortably you don't belong on the routes above that it provides access to. My only problem with it is the stars as a standalone route. The larger dihedral is Local Acces. Bill, I don't know about the 'better pro' part from what I recall of it. I seem to recall not caring much for the pro on it and I'm generally pretty comfortable with sketch pro.

Bryan, I have a spare rope and rack you're welcome to borrow...

Flying Swallow is down and right. That appears to be a bag hanging a bit below Dods and above and between Flightime and Flying Circus.

Well, you are no stranger to flights of fantasy.

I was asking Opdycke about a line 20 or so feet to the left of that just the other day.

Hypocrisy - isn't that when you spray about what a bad ass trad climber you are as you are grid bolting.

It was the shrub at the top of the wide section about 8-10 feet above your head in that photo. I suspect it's gone as it would have sucked aiding through it as well.

1 in 5 Oregonians are without insurance - the private healthcare industry is a complete failure from the perspective of the comparative advantage of nations. It's really more an issue of how our nation competes on the world stage than about the bullshit fear-mongering the right would have you believe. As it stands right now, the U.S. isn't competitive with a private healthcare system and never will be.

Oh, fucked up a couple of already broke fingers surfing. Hope to be able to get back on stuff in the next week or so... If I tag the FFA can I rename it to: 'takes a village idiot'? It's about how I feel at the moment.