Chad_A

That would be correct.

That's a good question; depends on what you're looking for. Something to get you amped for a climb, or something mellow for blending in with the scenery? I'd put Neil Young forth for just about any road trip.

Very cool, thanks for the TR. Looking forward to the pics!

Hell no. Well, I guess that depends on how high my wallet will afford me to go in the future. I already lack brain cells; high altitude damage couldn't hurt much.

http://blog.sciam.com/index.php?title=into_thin_air_altitude_s_toll_on_the_bra&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 Brain Cells into Thin Air by R. Douglas Fields National Institutes of Mental Health Washington, D.C. "Mount Everest is very easy to climb, only just a little too high." - The Observer, Jan 25, 1953. Three attributes of a good mountaineer are high pain threshold, bad memory, and ... I forget the third. - R. Douglas Fields Climbing Mount Everest is not so difficult; the hard part is getting down intact. According to a recent brain imaging study, almost no one does. Of thirteen climbers in the study who attempted Mount Everest, none returned without brain damage. The study also scanned the brains of climbers who attempted less extreme summits. For those of us who love to climb, the results are less than elevating. It seems that almost no one, whether the weekend warrior chaperoned to the summit or the seasoned mountaineer, will return from the high peaks with a brain in the same condition it was in beforehand. What Goes On in a Climber's Brain? The first scientific study of the effects of high altitude on the human brain were made by nineteenth century Italian physiologist Angelo Mosso, who made direct observations on a man whose brain was partly exposed as a result of an accident. Mosso, peeking into the man's skull, observed vague changes in swelling of the brain, but the crude methods available at the time limited his analysis. Now a similar experiment has been done with modern noninvasive brain imaging. In the study reviewed here, "Evidence of Brain Damage After High-Altitude Climbing by Means of Magnetic Resonance Imaging," neurologists Nicholas Fayed and colleagues at the Clinica Queron and Miguel Servet University Hospital in Zarogoza, Spain, gave MRI brain scans to 35 climbers (12 professionals and 23 amateurs) who had returned from high-altitude expeditions, including 13 who had attempted Everest. The results on the Everest climbers are the most stark. Of the thirteen climbers, three had made the summit, at 8480 meters, three had reached 8100 meters, and seven topped out between 6500 and 7500 meters. Though the expedition suffered no major mishaps and none of the 12 professional climbers suffered any obvious signs of high-altitude illness, only one of the 13 climbers returned with a normal brain scan. The brain scans showed that all but one climber suffered cortical atrophy and enlargement of the Virchow-Robin spaces. These are spaces surrounding brain blood vessels that drain brain fluid and communicate with the lymph system. Widening of these VR spaces is seen in the elderly, but rarely in young people. The amateur climber's brain had also suffered subcortical lesions in the frontal lobes. Signs Acute and Subtle A person's tolerance to hypoxia (lack of oxygen) varies according to differences in innate physiology and physical conditioning, which can help the body and brain better tolerate the exertion and physiological stresses of high-altitude mountaineering. But no one is immune to hypoxia's effects. The first stage of high altitude sickness is called acute mountain sickness, which can cause headache, insomnia, dizziness, fatigue, nausea, and vomiting. The next stage up in seriousness is high-altitude cerebral edema (that is, brain swelling), also known as HACE, which is potentially fatal. Both are rooted in the body's reaction to low levels of oxygen. Lack of oxygen to the brain directly impairs or damages brain cells. In addition, the walls of blood capillaries in the brain and elsewhere begin to leak at altitude, and this leaked fluid causes dangerous swelling, pressing the brain outward against the rigid skull. Sometimes the optic nerves swell so badly they bulge into the back of the eye, degrading vision and causing retinal hemorrhages. Meanwhile, blood, concentrated from dehydration and thickened by increased numbers of red blood cells, more easily clots, and this clotting, along with the hemorrhage from the thinned capillaries, increases the chance of stroke. A climber suffering HACE may experience amnesia, confusion, delusions, emotional disturbance, personality changes, and loss of consciousness. This acute high-altitude disease has long been known to cause brain damage. But one of the sobering things about the Fayed study is that none of the Everest climbers experienced high altitude cerebral edema, and the only acute case of mountain sickness was a mild one suffered by the expedition's amateur climber. Yet even all the professional mountaineers showed lasting brain damage -- presumably suffered on previous ascents to the high mountains, because their MRI scans were abnormal before the Mt. Everest ascent and unchanged after. How High is too High -- and Will It Get Better? Of course, Everest is extreme. What about ventures to lesser high altitudes? Fayed and colleagues also studied an eight-person team that attempted Aconcagua, a 6,926-meter summit in the Andes. Two climbers reached the summit, five ascended to 6000-6400 meters, and one reached 5500 meters. Yet three members experienced acute mountain sickness and two displayed symptoms of brain edema -- probably because they ascended more rapidly from lower altitudes than did the Everest climbers. All eight Aconcagua climbers showed cortical atrophy on MRI. Seven showed the enlarged Virchow-Robin spaces, and four showed numerous subcortical lesions. Some needed no brain scan to tell them their brains had been injured. One of the climbers suffered aphasia (problems with speech), from which he recovered 6 months later. Two complained of transient memory loss after returning, and three others struggled with bradypsychia (slowed mental function). The body is remarkably resilient--does the brain recover from these mountaineering wounds? To answer this important question, the researchers re-examined the same climbers three years after the expedition, with no other high-altitude climbing intervening. In all cases, the brain damage was still evident on the second brain scan. Still, Aconcagua is one of the world's highest mountains -- in the top 100. Mont Blanc, in the Alps, is less extreme. With a summit at 4810 meters, it is climbed each year by thousands of mountaineers who probably do not expect injury to their "second favorite organ," to use Woody Allen's nomenclature for the brain. Yet the researchers found that of seven climbers reaching the summit of Mount Blanc, two returned with enlarged VR spaces. Because Why? The study suggests that chronic exposure to high altitudes is not required to experience irreversible brain damage. In fact, amateurs seem to be at greater risk, since they are more likely to suffer acute mountain sickness or high-altitude cerebral edema. At the same time, the experience needed to become a well-acclimated professional seems to take its own toll; compared to the amateurs, however, the professional climbers in this study suffered greater cortical atrophy overall, which suggests an ever-increasing cumulative toll. Mountain climbing is growing in popularity, and with good reason. It can provide experiences of a lifetime; a communion with Nature and with friends that feeds the soul; intense and enduring rewards surpassing those found within the bounds of routine; and adventure and challenge that builds courage, stamina, and fortitude. It also gets you into incomparable mountain wilderness -- though that is vanishing under the transforming pressure of a warming, polluted atmosphere that is melting the alpine snows and under the repellent litter and human waste strewn along paths to even remote peaks. Sadly, many urgently sense that the singular "it" residing in George Mallory's pithy raison d'ascent, "Because it's there!", may soon be gone. Approximately 5000 climbers ascend Himalayan peaks every year, and many thousands more climb high in the Alps and Andes. Many spend huge sums to mount expeditions or pay enormous fees to be guided to the summit. This fascinating but sobering research by Fayed and colleagues makes it clear that these climbers are paying for the privilege with something more than hard-earned cash. They're paying with brain tissue.

You're on the right track; go out and climb with other's tools, then make the decision for yourself. Info gathering is great, and useful, but go out and put in some laps and that will really settle your decision. Good luck, have fun (from a Quark owner) Cheers, Chad

"I'm a male nurse".

D'oh! FAs on crappy rock? Oh, wait, I think I need to take a shower that day. Or do my taxes.

What's up with smoking cigars without me? Nice pics, looks like a good time.

Hope the Bush administration doesn't see this...next we'll be hearing about squirrel suicide bombers on our home soil.

Ah, Boundary Bay is fine. Good beer, no headaches here. The are potent, though. Not much below 6% ABV. Hey, I thought Casa Que Pasa closed down? Someone told me they got fined to death over the smoking laws. Guess I shouldn't believe everything I'm told...

Wow, smokin deal. Wish I had 265 bucks!

I tried PMing you, but it's not working for some reason. I live in NE Portland and have a couple for you, unused. You can also email me at anderson7149ATcomcastDOTnet Cheers, Chad

Astrov- check your pm's. CP- I haven't seen any others; I've kept my eye out when I'm on a short-time jog, and have yet to see one. I don't really know anything about this golf course, but I'm guessing I live on a nasty dogleg that sends chronic golfballs over the fence. Oh well, there's always IPA to be had

I'll comment on what I have experience with on your list, and leave the speculation out. I own an Osprey pack, and love it. It's the Ceres 70, and it's been replaced by the Exposure lineup. They look real nice, might want to take a good look at them. As far as the crampons go, I've owned all of what you mentioned (G12, G14, Sabretooth) and I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. You'd be fine doing a trip to Ouray with either the G12 or the Sabretooths, and they'll save you a bit of weight over the G14s for the glacier climbs. That said, if you're really looking forward to experimenting at Ouray, the G14s do come with a monopoint conversion kit. I haven't heard of any problems with these crampons having issues fitting on certain boots, but someone will probably chime in and prove me wrong Hope that helps you a bit. Cheers, Chad

That's a good point, and one I might look into, but I have no idea how I would hang up such a net. I'm officially done with this now, as I've been properly put in line by you all, but I did find this post on a legal forum that I've copied and pasted, and this sums up where I was coming from. "I'm sure you know more about the law than I do, but how could the person who hit the ball not be legally responsible? I want to know b/c the way I see it, the golfer has to be responsible. My point being, a homeowner who buys a house on the course does not imply that he/she should expect damage. If this is the case, than a person who purchases a house in a bad neighborhood should expect his/her house to be robbed, therefore it is the homeowners fault not the thief. Or the homeowner who buys a house that is situated on a bad curve in the road should expect a car to crash into his/her house."

Oh, and why the fuck would I bother reading the Oregonian?

Ah, the spray forum. Good for a laugh. No, not looking for legal advice any more than I'd look for good medical advice, here. Just the same as anything else, looking for a bit of insight/info. I did Google search. I'm not good at political rhetoric. I may have gotten shouted at here, but through the bullshit I've gotten what I was looking for. And yes, I knew there was a golf course across the street, but I didn't believe that golfers could be so bad they could clear a street, plus some more distance to hit my property. Go figure. I'd thought that people may have spent a bit of time at a driving range first, heheh.

Now we're getting somewhere, regardless of underworld. Coming to the nuisance is what I was looking for, in effect, and how it works. I did some digging and came up with private nuisance: "A private nuisance is an unreasonable non-trespassory interference with another's private use and enjoyment of land." Also: "owners of land who do not themselves engage in activity constituting a nuisance may nevertheless "be liable for the acts of third parties that create a nuisance on their land" if they both "know that the activity is being carried on and will involve an unreasonable risk of causing the nuisance" and "consent to the activity or fail to exercise reasonable care to prevent it." I guess it just pisses me off that I had a ball break through the side window of my garage and come near to pegging me in the face. I'd follow geoff's suggestion, but the damage to my vehicle happens often when I don't see it. After I wash it, I find a few more dents here and there, and my neigbor's old Super Beetle is starting to look like a golf ball itself, with its many dimples on the panels.

Fuck that. I'll stop whining when they stop causing hundreds of dollars of damage to my Jeep.

So, I live near a public Portland Golf Course. About every other day on average, there's a golf ball that comes through my front yard. Some days they bounce off a car, sometimes off my roof, sometimes off the siding of my house. Granted there are stretches of time when everything's quiet, but you all get what I'm saying. I'm getting a few dimples in the sheetmetal of my Cherokee because of it. I called the Golf Course, and they claim that they have no liability, and that it's the fault of the golfer and it's up to them to fess up to it. I told them that that's a load. No golfer would fess up to hitting someone else's property if they knew they hit something, and I'd guess that most of the time they have no idea since they're some-odd hundred yards away when they tee off. I'm thinking of getting my insurance agent involved, and point out a couple of the dents in the hood of my Jeep from the golf balls, and have them go after them. Maybe that will get them to put up some netting or something? I'm sure all of this will fall on deaf ears, but was wondering if someone here on the board would know whom to contact first. The guy who answered the phone at the course tonight seemed to think the Parks and Rec department would be the best place to start "but it will probably fall on deaf ears". Oh well, such is life.

10-12-07

Cool, looking forward to Saturday. Hopefully I get out of work on time!

Checked- partner found.

Thinking about going up there and running some laps in a crevasse. I need to work Friday or Saturday, but not both. The sooner someone lets me know, the better...or else I'll just work both days and make extra cash. Oh, and if anyone's been up there lately and knows how things are looking, let me know. Send me a PM or email me at anderson7149ATcomcastDOTnet Cheers, Chad