dmuja

So anyone know if this much is accurate (ie, actually stated in a note left by the climbers) at least? -- (a) They park their truck on Wednesday 12/6 "near Tilly Jane trailhead" (b) They leave a note dated Thursday 12/7 and (presumably) hit the trail and begin the approach © Their plans are to camp ("sleep") Thursday 12/7 (night?) "on route" (likely somewhere still on the approach?) (d) Their plans are to climb the NF and descend the South side on Friday 12/8 (e) They then plan to retrieve the truck on Saturday 12/9 (f) In an "emergency storm" they plan to descend Cooper Spur (g) They will have "food and fuel" in the truck (stashed?) -- I have heard mention of 2 different notes left by the climbers. I have heard mention of "extra food and fuel" supposedly carried by the climbers - or is that what was stashed in the truck?

Not really "alpine" but.. watch the vid, learn and modify. You could try using a short section(s) of small dia dynamic rope instead of daisies and use screamers to lessen the peak loads in a fall. You better make good placements though. vid-->http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4832527121139830698&q=dean+potter+solo+nose+rock+climbing&hl=en

for "hardman" jonmf76, I was on wimpy Rainier and got split up from my partner once. Wimpy 30-50 mph winds and snowing heavily. Wimpy 7500 feet elev, whiteout, avys thundering down around us (could hear but not see them). We walked within 5 feet of each other but did not know it (never saw each other) and we were looking and yelling. Last year on a solo trip I encountered similar conditions and found it challeneging (not impossible though) to set up shelter. In high winds, precip, high avy conditions the margin for error is so low that you should consider yourself fortunate (not superior) if you manage to even just be there without creating your own little epic. Responders must not become rescuees! Its about managing a situation for the best possible outcome, not hollywood heroics. Not that hollywood heroics dont happen, just that its usually not built into a plan. Your free to doubt and question but from where I sit I havent seen anything but a commendable and high quality rescue attempt in this case.

tnx for update cluck! Keep em comin and Be safe all

Can't be much clearer then that from fuggedaboudit, bet they're on the south side fr sure. HIGH avy warning tommorow, but with strong winds from the west/south/west the South side will be mostly wind sculpted - but still with pockets of loaded lee slope danger around.

No body should shit on beta requests.

Maybe, but think of yr favorite trad route. Now what if the next time you get on it you find bolts all over it? Could happen. But maybe yd just ignore them, fine, but theres no denying that the "bolt/sport" mentality has "re-visioned" what climbing is. Imagine House landing a chopper on top out of NP Rupal Face over a couple years time and buliding way staions, putting in bolts fixing cables, and then climbing it and claiming a "First Ascent". I know thats an extreme analogy, but thats one thing that "sport" climbing has brought with it, an distorted view of what it means to "climb". Things change, thats true, but some effects of the "anything goes" attitude are fucked up.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that there are consequences to bolting that go significantly beyond the immediate presence of a small piece of metal embedded in the rock. And that these consequences may not be realized by those who place bolts thinking something like "hey' its a small impact to the environment compared to.. etc..." I'll grant them that point if they recognized and admitted the farther reaching rippling effects of what happens after that "sport" route is put up. Alot of things get impacted and diminished imo. Im not an absolutist, but personally I DO think some places should be kept absolutely bolt free - or as close as we can get to that.

Well that would genuinely suck if people were being censored just for their opinions here.. thanks for the link Pope Also, One thing that bugs me is the arguments made about the bolts themselves being the issue. They are not, and it distracts from what we should be discussing. As much as I hate leaving anything behind in the mountains or at crags, arguing that a rock colored 1-2" piece of metal is trashing the environment completely misses the real issue. To be honest, unless your climbing the route and unless your looking for them, most of the time you won't even see them. Having said that, the real issue and impact is due to the unrestrained accessibility and "user friendly" environment that bolts create. Ever smelled piss, climbed in a cloud of tobacco smoke, picked up discarded bear cans and sig butts at the base of a bolted route? I have. Having to buy gear and learn to use it means your likely to be more serious about all aspects of climbing in general including your impact on the environment. Like many have previously said and often, bolting (especially bad bolting) changes the nature and environment of the climb - in other words, it changes ones experience of climbing. an analogy might be like building a bridge from Sea town to the Olympic Peninsula, do you think that would change the nature of the Olympic Peninsula maybe just a little? Some "unclimbable" or unprotectable climbs should always remain just that shouldn't they? And some areas should be kept forever bolt free I think. Maybe we need more than "ethics" to do that, maybe some laws.

JMO - I think some folks are too quick to bolt shit, and I prolly fall some where between two extremes. Its ironic tho, CBS put up a TR that got shit on because there were of a couple of controversial bolts already on it, yet another dude puts up a new route on SEWS and places like 8 or 10? bolts on the first pitch (witch he stated would be unprotectable without them - aka "murdering the impossible") and nobody bats an eye!. much praise instead. I know one climb is a "crag" and the other is "alpine" but still, it seems a little inconsistent to me. Im open to explanations though? D

prolly even yur fuggin ipod will work!

1gb new tiny one, nifty as hell, if I could have gotten it to work - in fact, one of the "10 essentials" for sure, if I could have gotten it to work. yep. I hope they work the bugs out eventually. Yes, yr right, when I checked again, indeed the CD had the songs actually burned on it - at first glance I thought it merely burned "links" to the songs stored in my itunes library on my PC. But still, the format will not allow me to copy the content on the CD disk accept to another "Apple" product right? In othr wurdz, I can't transfer them *DIRECTLY* to another kind of digi music (mp3) player. So I tried---> Ripping: (also referred to as "digital audio extraction") a process of copying the audio or video data from one media form, such as DVD or CD, to a hard disk. "Ripping" has been adopted to refer to audio extraction/duplication, though this use of the term is not literally accurate. Lo and behold, I "ripped" the tracks into "My Music" folder on my pc hard disk and they are now in "wma" (Windows Media Audio) format! coool.. Question: So now..if I buy something like "Creative Labs Zen" or some other non-apple product, I will be able to transfer these "wma" file tracks into that device right?? And they should play just fine?? Same quality - or close to the same? Possible problems??

weird, dont know what happened there.... so as I was saying.. Im asking about the BEST AND EASIEST MP3 PLAYER AND DOWNLOAD SITE. Im not that puter savy (obvious). I have confidence that there is such a thing out there. I used to like itunes because of thier large selection and so far I haven't found other sites that sell as cheap with that big of playlist. Sugestions?? thnx - D

So if you work out to music you already know that listening to 'Tool' or 'Puddle of Mud' is better than crystal meth for an energy boost. So with that in mind, I recently tried out an "iPod shuffle" digi music player. Great concept, and after I loaded one song off of iTunes I was stoked - this thing is as close to weightless and invisable as it gets! Unfortunately, I could NOT load any more songs on it! No matter what I re-installed, re-re-installed, it still gave me an error message, and after searching the web all day as well as the apple "support?" site (which tried to blame my 1 year old pc for being "out of date" - I updated everything possible) I finally gave up and took the damn thing back to target for a refund! Also, itunes sucks now because you can't even burn a CD as you could 2 years ago because of their proprietary software scam. So, my quest is for suggestions pertaining to

I disagree, not only with the accuracy of this statement, but with its implications and importance. If its true that "We're all racists unconsciously", then accordingly this should be true nearly 100% of the time for the statement to be considered accurate - it is not however, because there are numerous examples of "exceptions" to this assertion which are far too numerous to be explained away as mere random anomaly. If its "true" then one must explain the exceptions. People of differing races interact on all social levels, intermarry, and very often develop deep and lifelong friendships and relationships that clearly transcend conscious or unconscious "racial" mental boundaries and categorizations. With little and often no effort, these "boundaries", "tendencies" or "bias" are either blown away or easily overcome as insubstantial. Given the right environment, they may not even develop in the first place. In other words, they simply don't warrant they level of study and respect we give them. In fact, what we really mean by "racial" is likely always cultural, sub-cultural, and environmental-societal in nature. These aspects of human behavior are a mix of both of conscious and subconscious choice and habits. But just because something is (or more accurately, BECOMES) "subconscious" doesn't mean it is inherent or innate to the natural human condition. There is nothing in nature so malleable as the human mind, nor as hard to define. To say something like "We're all racists" etc.. really says nothing empirically useful nor even true in the long run, for if it were, then there would be no hope at all of overcoming this arbitrary, meaningless and quite shallow quirk of human rationalization (that we seem so bent on excusing for some reason). Certain aspects of human psychology are not that complicated nor are they even that deep. Sometimes people act just dumb as fuck and there is no reasoning that can justify it.

(SPRAY INTERVENTION) The "evolution" of man... ..Pfff.. I mean its hardly a "wilderness" anymore right? Why not improve the trail to allow for more access and thus more people to appreciate it? ..Pfff.. I mean its hardly a "wilderness" anymore right? Why not improve the road to allow more access and thus more users to appreciate it? ..Pfff.. I mean its hardly a "wilderness" anymore right? Why not improve the road, the signs and parking lot to allow for more types of access and thus more sportsmen to appreciate it? ..Pfff.. I mean its hardly a "wilderness" anymore right? Why not improve the roadS, concessions, and parking areas, expand the lodge and golf coarse and allow for all types of convenient use. Thats what WE consumers would appreciate. ..Pfff.. I mean its hardly a "wilderness" anymore right? Why not widen the highway, develop the subdivisions, expand the parking garages, airport and business district and thus improve the economy. That$ what I as a business owner and provider of jobs would appreciate. ..Pfff.. I mean there is no real "wilderness" anymore right? With global warming and the rapture fast approaching I say we should just milk this bitch for all she's worth. Open her up for drilling and mine the shit out of it all, then lets just party like its 1999! Sorry, maybe a bit too cynical for this thread but I couldn't help it.

Si Hay Stack. I soloed half way up one winter with 2 alpine axes and a rope. To stupid to be scared until I thought about getting down and realized that that could be difficult with no gear. One committed move Ill never forget! - if it held I lived - if not ... Careful scary down climbing to a tree rap got me back though.

Yeah, you'd think their depts policy would NOT approve tazing someone who is cuffed and simply non-cooperative. "Uhmm, you do have a policy on tazer use don't you guys?" Looks like the cops (acting on impulse) violated dept policy at least 3 up to 5 times? (judging by the guys screams and crowds growing reactions - cops actions almost caused a riot). I agree 'bout the law suit - thx Gary

I think the point of training is so you eventually DONT ruin your climbing days by pumping out. To get ther though, in the process of training, you will have to "pump out" to make progress. High reps and little weight does not significantly increase strength. The point in training then is to exhaust yourself/strength, then rest/recover, then exhaust, then rest/recover, etc... Each time (or nearly each time) you "exhaust", you push it a little bit harder to get to that exhaustion. This requires smart (to avoid injury) and heavy lifting/pulling. Durring the training process your muscles will be tired alot, but in a different way than when youre out of shape. You will find your self able to "push it farther" and you will get stronger even though sometimes you will still "think" or "feel" like your muscles are tired. I have found that you really can't tell how your muscles will perform (in training or in climbing) until you actually are working them. Sometimes I thought I was wasted and not recovered and bamm, ended up crankin it out. Other times I felt rested and found I had nothing. Generally I believe its best to set particular goals according to the calendar and "cycle" up to meet those goals. IE, train hard and "peak out" at the right time for a particular climb or season. The key is to set goals and keep meeting them to (which in turn) keep your interest up enough to keep training and thus keep improving. You gotta find ways to *like* the process if you want to really make progrees. Any way, my own schedule is - at this time of year - to be heavy on the training and lite on the climbing so the cycle is near the begining (seasonally speaking). But Im not "locked in" to that. With a base level of fitness already achieved I could easily adjust the cycle at any point for any goals that come up given a short or apropriate amount of notice. Just for example, I am currently on this schedule: Sun - cardio & stretching Mon - Heavy lifting/pulling & cardio n stretching Tue - stretching Wed - lite lifting/pulling & cardio & stretching thur - stretching and climbing fri - Heavy lifting/pulling & cardio n stretching sat - have a beer day - Maybe some climbin too Now if I wanted to be "peaking" for climbing right now I would have cycled up to that and would probly *NOT* be doing 2 days a week of heavy lifting. I would make sure that my muscles were "lactic acid free" (ie totally recovered) come time to do the climb. So I might then take out one of the "heavy lifting/pulling" days or sub it with a lite lifting day and probly add more climbin and stretching. To sum up; * You gotta lift heavy to get stronger. * You CAN and should get smart about training and use cycling/peaking methods. * If you do, you can work weight training in with your climbing just fine without hurting your climbing - infact it necessarily WILL improve your climbing. * Train for ballance (core and cross train etc) and don't just do pull ups or weighted (lat) pull downs. You use your entire body to climb and should be training it in total or you will have weaknesses and injuries. * Finally, DONT injure your self by lifting/pulling too heavy or too much. It can take months to acustom your joints ligiments, tendons, etc, to taking on heavy weights and active recovery (ie "rest") periods are essential. I know the thread is originally pertaining to "ice climbing" but the subject of weight training for climbing in general has come up more than once lately so I stretched it a bit - sorry if I ... PS - dmuja has been training with weights and other stuf like yoga thru many different sport/disciplines for quite a few years - since my teens.

Its funny, is that the same Will Gadd that has a weight lifting routeen in the back of one of his books? (fe 2003) I think there are too many variables here to make blanket statements that apply to all climbers at all times. WG is comparing himself to other climbers, I was comparing myself (ones self) to my self. When I look at C Sharma for example I see a pretty strong guy for his weight (were talking strength to weight ratio here) with superior technique. Some people are naturally strong, some naturally thin, and some have superior body mechanics ala Michael Jordon. But I think for the average weekend type of climber a combination of good strength to weight ratio AND skill is the best way to go. JMO Personally I cant climb as much as some because my 45 year old joints get trashed with too much climbing. This forces me to rely on technique more and more and thats good - just not the whole story I think. Try hooking a 1 finger pocket under a roof and tell me strength has nothing to do with it. Now send a seris of those moves and tell me that strength and muscle endurance (depending how fat or skinny you are) has nothing to do with climbing? It depends on the individual and their climbing goals no doubt, I still say that there is no one that couldn't benifit from some strength training though..

Helo Mr JF. unfortunate anticipated spray beginning.. Are you hinting that weight lifting has no place in climbing? Curious. PS - supps always come with a physical price I think. Mujas 3 ingredient recipe for better climbin 1. thin (remove donut - run don't walk) 2. strong (aka hit the weights) 3. skilled (aka do the moves) The order depends on the individual but all are essential for climbing at your personal best dont you think?

After I get done cryin in my beer, it maybe time to get my 4 (check that, 6) wheelin on. Mine runs on biodiesel! In all seriousness, this is going to effect a lot of people judging by the numbers I have seen up there in the last four winters.

for the record, this totally sucks! There goes my xmas vacation. Is there anohter way to Paradise this year? Anyone know?

Ummm...I like chai tea... nnnnn.. stretchy pants Im a man though I tell you , a real MAN!

never mind ...delete