Dane

I humbly beg to differ CF, Trench foot is actually a cold injury and has nothing to do with fungus. Once experienced it can be a precursor to frost bite but can be and generally is had at any temperature below 60F. Same issue below 32F and it is frostbite. My guess from some research over the last couple of years is a lot of climbers have had trench foot in the newest fabric boots and are unknowingly left more vunerable to trench foot again or serious frost bite because of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_foot That blister has nothing to do with Trench foot. I've seen a lots of blisters. Only time I have seen anything like that, in that position and of similar size is from a kid walking on really hot pavement. Boot fit is in question because if your foot was slipping backward and then forward on a moderate descent that much to cause that kind of blister your toes should also be damaged. If they are not I'd say your boots are way, way too big from what I have seen so far. If you are coming from Texas to climb Rainier you have enough money to get your boots properly fit. Insoles and a proper fit by a professional boot fitter is good insurance and cheap in comparison to trashed feet and/or a ruined trip for you or your partners. Too big you can fix to a point. Too small and you'd have to get new boots. You made it down from Muir which is 5 miles and 5000 feet from the parking lot...coming down from the summit is another much steeper 4500 feet of elevation to loose and much harder on your feet while in crampons. This is not intended as an insult. If I saw your feet in that condition I wouldn't allow you on my rope. You may consider yourself experienced. I can tell by your lack of concern for your feet and boot choices that you would be well served by rethinking your position on foot wear and fit for Rainier. [edit] CF is right on. No one should pay retail for boots. Ebay, here on CC.com and on sale via the web is the answer there. I won't even look at boots that aren't at least 20% off retail. 50% or more is even better. Let goggle be your friend.

Get some custom foot beds. They drop right in your inner boots. Don't rely on a bad fit and duct tape to help your feet. Sounds like a heat blister (not a friction blister) in the boot to me on that terrain and in that position on your foot. Duct tape (which does not breath) will just make it worse imo. Pulling it off a blister like that could be a serious medical issue. Duct tape is awesome for friction blisters in a pinch. I'd do some more walking in your boots around home and figure out exactly why your boots are eating your feet before I took them on Rainier again. A bad summit day and you might find your self walking down in NO boots from Muir if that blister is any indication.

"...at quite small companies like Armor..." In the SEC S-4 for 2004 Armor Holdings controlled 40 some corps with at least 10 of them that I recognise that were building personal body armor. The company (AH) sold three years later for $4.1 BILLION. Talking BILLIONS here not millions. Small? Exxon-Mobile's market capitalization is 278 Billion, the largest in the US currently, Microsoft 219 Billion. Not that big, but 4 BILLION is "big" enough. from the 2004 SEC S-4 911EP, Inc. AHI Bulletproof Acquisition Corp. AHI Properties I, Inc. AI Capital Corp. Armor Brands, Inc. Armor Group Services, LLC Armor Holdings Forensics, Inc. Armor Holdings GP, LLC Armor Holdings LP, LLC Armor Holdings Mobile Security, L.L.C. Armor Holdings Payroll Services, LLC Armor Holdings Products, Inc. Armor Holdings Properties, Inc. Armor Safety Products Company ASD Capital Corp. B-Suare, Inc. Break-Free Armor Corp. Break-Free, Inc. Casco International, Inc. CCEC Capital Corp. CDR International, Inc. Defense Technology Corporation of America Hatch Imports, Inc. Identicator, Inc. International Center for Safety Education, Inc. Monadnock Lifetime Products, Inc. New Monadnock Lifetime Products, Inc. Monadnock Police Training Council, Inc. NAP Properties, Ltd. NAP Property Managers, LLC Network Audit Systems, Inc. New Technologies Armor, Inc. O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring Pro-Tech Armored Products of Ramtech Development Corp. Safari Land Ltd., Inc. Safariland Government Sales, Inc. SAI Capital Corp. Simula Aerospace & Defense Group, Inc. Simula, Inc. Simula Polymers Systems, Inc. Simula Technologies, Inc. Simula Transportation Equipment Corporation Speedfeed Acquisition Corp. The O'Gara Company "The Armor spokesperson told Reuters that Armor's DoJ fine related to products made by Armor during the period 2000-2005." No way to win when you are fighting all the FEDS. That happens when you really piss off those that should have known better themselves like the FBI, DOJ, the Secret Service for GOD's sake, the NIJ and virtually every Federal and State law enforcement agency and their Attorney Generals. "The problem was making "zylon" bullet-proof vests while knowing the stuff was no good.... " Says who? You? I didn't see any evidence of that past all the suits filed against anyone building from Zylon. You want to paint everyone with the broad stroke of Richard Davis' conduct. Which is obviously an unfair representation. "Armor was neither the only manufacturer of these products, nor the only company fined on this. There were at least several, including the giant Honeywell. Does that make sense to you?" Sure, but not really the story or on point. Civil fines were paid because it was easier than fighting it out in court..for both sides. Better to call it a "leveraged" factory recall with everyone then wanting their money back...in this case those wanting their money were also the "law of the land". It was a big stick. "As Kanders said recently on the Black Diamond conference call, he sees "opportunities in the industry for consolidation" --- This is also how he made his killing with Armor." The thread started off as a bash to Kanders and BD suggesting the "new" gear will be sub par in comparison. I have a fair idea of what the consolidation did to the firearms training and accessory industry and don't have an issue with it. Do I want that same business format applied to climbing? Not really. But I don't begrudge Kanders the opportunity either. Reading comprehension and geography?...try looking up Issaquah and Tacoma. It might help your fantasy speculation and story telling.

Geezus..try some context if you want to have an intelligent discussion. "My point is simple. Rage on about Kanders if you like as a corporate raider or his abilities to manage the corporate culture surrounding BD. But to imply that the the DOJ or the Zylon disaster has anything to do with Kanders being personally irresponsible or unethical, is simple, uneducated, hyperbole." Second Chance eventually recalled all of its zylon-containing vests, which led to its subsequent bankruptcy in 2004. AH Inc bought 2nd Chance in 2005. In early 2005, Armor Holdings, Inc. first recalled its existing Zylon-based products, and decreased the rated lifespan warranty of new vests from 60 months to 30 months as all the other manufactures became aware of the durablity issues with Zylon. In the summer 2005, AHI discontinued manufacturing all of its Zylon-containing vests AFTER Zylon, as a material, lost its NIJ rating, and the law suits across the entire industry started piling up. It was, after all, the NIJ who was required and did certified Zylon as appropriate for use as a ballistic vest material. Not because AHI vests had failed. Although in hind sight it is obvious now any Zylon vest will fail over time. The failed vests were a 2nd Chance issue because they had been on the market the longest and because of the proprietary 2nd Chance designs that so heavily relied on Zylon. Plenty of evidence that Richard Davis of 2nd Chance made some bad ethical decisions all would find questionable by not publically announcing the Zylion issues earlier. At that point (loss of NIJ certification) anyone/everyone who had previously made ballistics vests from Zylon was sued. And from what I can find I still see no wrong doing by Kanders.

It is all in the details. And the majority of the details are wrong or misleading at best. Saying something isn't proving it. I'd bet few in the discussion have seen a Zylon or Kevlar vest in person or have any idea as to the differences. Highlights below are mine. Page 14 and 15 (not page 24) from the Jan 2004 SEC FORM S-4 ARMOR HOLDINGS, INC. "ZYLON® INVESTIGATION Second Chance Body Armor, Inc., a body armor manufacturer and competitor to Armor Holdings, has notified its customers of a potential safety issue with their Ultima® and Ultimax® models. Second Chance Body Armor has claimed that Zylon® fiber, which is made by Toyobo, a Japanese corporation, and used in the ballistic fabric construction of those two models, degraded more rapidly than originally anticipated. Second Chance Body Armor has also stated that the Zylon® degradation problem affects the entire body armor industry, not just their products. Both private claimants and State Attorneys General have already commenced legal action against Second Chance Body Armor based upon its Ultima® and Ultimax® model vests. Second Chance Body Armor licenses from us a certain patented technology which is used in the body armor it manufactures, but to our knowledge, no lawsuit has yet been brought against Second Chance Body Armor based upon this licensed technology. We use Zylon® fiber in a number of concealable body armor models for law enforcement, but our design approach and construction are very different. We have been testing our Zylon®-based vests since their 2000 introduction and to date these tests of our Zylon®-based vests show no unanticipated degradation in ballistic performance. In addition, to our knowledge, no other body armor manufacturer has reported or experienced similar problems as those cited by Second Chance Body Armor. Finally, the National Institute of Justice tests and certifies each of our body armor designs before we begin to produce or sell any particular model. Following the Second Chance Body Armor assertions, several key law enforcement associations have raised the issue to the U.S. Department of Justice and Attorney General's Office. The U.S. Attorney General has asked the U.S. Department of Justice to investigate the concerns and produce information to clarify the issues. We support the Attorney General's directive and the investigation. As we have licensed our technology to Second Chance Body Armor, we may be impacted by the pending claims against Second Chance Body Armor and the investigation being conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice." My point is simple. Rage on about Kanders if you like as a corporate raider or his ability to manage the corporate culture surrounding BD. But to imply that the the DOJ or the Zylon disaster has anything to do with Kanders being personally irresponsible or unethical, is simple, uneducated, hyperbole.

Some excellent advice above, all from guys who have done a lot of this stuff. Great TR and effort btw! My comments are about boot observations in general, use what you see fit But geezus dude that is one nasty blister. I've seen some good ones guiding but nothing like that! That kind of injury should have set you on a path to square away your mountaineering foot wear. I have to assume this thread is all about that, right? If so, first ditch the plastics for the majority of what you do. Too much boot for anything but Rainier around here and then only in some nasty conditions. Plastics use to be the standard, now there are much better options. Getting too hot of feet is almost as bad and can be just as debilitationg as too cold of feet. As bad as the weather was on yourr last trip that looks to be a heat induced blister not a friction induced blister. If I am wrong about that, get rid of your platics because they DON"T FIT YOU. I'm taking from your previous commnet that as NOT 23 summits on Rainier right? Many of us wear some kind of runner or lwt hiker to Muir or Sherman or Observation Rock when the conditions allow it. And there are boots similar to what you have shown that I would wear to the summit most any time, depending on conditions. But Daniel is right first they have to have a shank to support your foot. I prefer a rigid soled boot a majority of the time if I am in crampons. Generally less comfortable to walk in but there are a few newer models that make even a rigid sole worth dealing with. La Sportiva Trango Extreme and Batura come to mind as does the Scarpa Phantom series. Add crampons and you have the Ferrari's of the mtn boot world. The lwt mtn boots like the Scarpa Charmoz or La Sportiva Trango and the others mentioned work almost as well and maybe better in perfect weather, just hiking and in crampons up higher. Boots are all about fit first and then what the intended use is. I'll go with ColdFinger on this, "Boots and crampons (with antibotts) are THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF SAFETY GEAR." I've been to Muir dozens of times in plastics, when typically a running shoe would have done just as well and hope to never, ever have to do it again Sounds like you know all that already and you are certainly on the right track attempting to drop weight off your feet. Ounces do count. "Keep in mind that for every 1 lb of footwear, it's like carrying an extra 6.4 lb of weight on your back." http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/05/why-weight-of-your-footwear-is.html

Sorry, Layton I don't have much to add. I do use a foam "cup" on my gas cans for the Reactor made from a old pad. I thank Atreides for that idea. Although I use a small hole in the bottom you can set a BIC lighter too. Bowl with water might well be a better idea while cooking but I want a hot stove, fast and worry less about cooking more about melting. Haven't hooked up a heat exchanger to it yet. But eventually will I think. Thought Colin Haley pretty much got it right in this comment, "Warm weather use a Jet Boil, Cold weather use a MSR Reactor." For me it is more do I need a stove at all, If I do, I tried to break it down to three uses: expedition base camp...white gas w/ a pump winter climbing hydration..Reactor summer (high % of time easy access to water)...Jet boil I'd sure be interested in the results of any testing you do. Although I use it I am not a huge fan of the Reactor. My concerns and observations are in the previous thread.

Obviously been awhile since we have climbed together. I've had better days So I am thinking game on hooser! Sobo loose on the beach saying hello to his first 17 year old Polish girl All we have to do is out geezer, this old geezer...and his educated nose for loose women and willing rope guns .

Boy talk about a mess. I had no idea just how expensive the Zylon issue became for the industry. And we thought the liability issues in climbing were bad? I bet Warren Kanders has an opinion on that one Imagine how happy the BOD at Armor Holding had to be as they acquired more and more law suits as the parent company for Second Chance Body Armor let alone their own Zylon manufacturing. Check these out if you are interested in such things. http://www.law360.com/company_articles/220 http://www.lawcash.com/attorney/3406/armor-holdings-lawsuit.asp http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/armorholdingsinc.html

Warren Kanders had NOTHING to do with 2nd Chance until well after the Zylon issue was made public by 2nd Chance in Sept of 2003 and Zylon vest production had stopped there at 2nd C. There is a 23 month gap between faulty vest manufacture and Warren Kanders assuming control of 2nd Chance via Armor Holdings. 9/'03 to 8/'05. Some take liable and slander very seriously. I'd be real careful about what I posted that might hurt a climbing company's income or its reputation. Let me see if I can better explain the time line. "In 1998, Second Chance introduced Zylon-based body armor (bullet-resistant vests), as a lightweight alternative to kevlar. The Zylon material used in the vests was supplied by Japan-based Toyobo." Second Chance filed for bankruptcy protection in Oct. 2004 specifically because of the law suits instigated by the use of Zylon in their vests. As of 2003 an estimated 200,000 of the nation's 700,000 police officers were believed to wear vests made with Zylon, which has been used by other body armor manufacturers in the United States and Canada. In June 2005, the National Institute of Justice, the United States government agency responsible for developing safety standards, determined that these Zylon-based vests NO LONGER met the required standards and may be defective. The United States Department of Justice advised law enforcement agencies to replace the vests used by police officers. Same NIJ that certified Zylon for use in vests every year from '98 to June '05. On August 2, 2005, Second Chance was acquired by Armor Holdings, Inc. for bargain basement price of $45 million. Kanders served as the Chairman of the Board of Armor Holdings, Inc. from January 1996 and as its Chief Executive Officer from April 2003 until the sell in 2007 to BAE." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chance_(body_armor) "By 2001, Second Chance's research chief, Aaron Westrick, was pleading unsuccessfully with his company's president to replace the (Zylon) vests after his own tests showed them degrading, the memos show. "Lives and our credibility are at stake," Westrick wrote then-Second Chance president Richard Davis in a Dec. 18, 2001, memo. "We will only prevail if we do the right things and not hesitate. This issue should not be hidden for obvious safety issues and because of future litigation." Westrick urged Davis to "immediately notify our customers of the degradation problems," let those with pending orders cancel them and cease all executive bonuses to save money so the company could pay for a replacement initiative, the memo shows. But Second Chance customers were not alerted to the problems until September 2003" http://www.policeone.com/police-products/body-armor/articles/119315-Federal-prosecutors-investigate-Second-Chance-vest-maker/ "Second Chance dates to the 1970s in Central Lake, and was founded by local resident Richard Davis. It once was among country's leading producers of soft, concealable body armor for police officers. But operations started to unravel when it was sued by several states and the U.S. Justice Department over allegations that the equipment prematurely lost its bullet resistance with age, a problem the company blamed on a product supplier. Second Chance filed for bankruptcy protection in 2004 and was purchased a year later by Armor Holdings Inc. for $45 million. Armor Holdings was acquired by the British giant BAE Systems Plc in 2007 for $4.1 billion, and became known as Safariland in January '08. In October 2008, the parent company (Safariland) paid $30 million to settle the Justice Department's suit." http://record-eagle.com/antrim/x75069712/Second-Chance-closing-its-doors Controling majority interest in 2nd Chance went like this, Richard Davis '71 Karen Davis by divorce '95 Zylon problem made public by 2nd Chance '03 Bankruptcy '04 Armor Holdings in '05 BAE in July '07 Safariland in '07 (who actually paid the $30m fine) So the 2nd Chance connection should be a dead issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zylon More on Zylon: Body Armor "Zylon gained wide use in U.S. police officers body armor protection in 1998 with its introduction by Second Chance Body Armor, Inc. .... Second Chance eventually recalled all of its zylon-containing vests, which led to its subsequent bankruptcy. In early 2005, Armor Holdings, Inc. first recalled its existing Zylon-based products, and decreased the rated lifespan warranty of new vests from 60 months to 30 months. In August 2005, AHI decided to discontinue manufacturing all of its Zylon-containing vests. This was largely based on the actions of the U.S. government's National Institute of Justice, which decertified Zylon for use in its approved models of ballistic vests for law enforcement." Looks to me like Warren Kanders stopped the production of any Zylon vests at Armor Holdings Inc once they were aware of all the issues. Even though they had tried to solve the problem by a shorter warrenty earlier and a recall of older vests. The now AHI owned, 2nd Chance had already stopped production of Zylon back in '03. A little knowledge about the history of Zylon would make you look at the production dates past June of '05 as questionable but there is no easy answer here. AHI was still producing Zylon between June and August. Then it stopped. Looks to me like Black Diamond is in good and equally important, attentive hands.

Sad. My best to friends and family. I can understand the draw as it is a beautiful climb. TR here: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=799082

I hear all kinds of irrational conversations bewteen the extreme right and the extreme left these days and talk of civil war. The numbers of lives lost should sober any thoughts of that. CONFLICT SPAN TOTALS War of Independence (1775-1783) 25,000 Quasi-War (1798-1800) 20 Barbary Wars (1801-1815) 35 War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000 1st Seminole War (1817-1818) 30 2nd Seminole War (1835-1842) 1,500 Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283 3rd Seminole War (1855-1858) 26 Civil War (1861-1865) 623,026 Indian Wars (1865-1898) 919 Spanish-American War (1898) 2,446 Philippine War (1898-1902) 4,196 Boxer Rebellion (1900-1901) 37 Mexican Revolution (1914-1919) 35 Haiti Occupation (1915-1934) 146 World War 1 (1917-1918) 116,708 World War 2 (1941-1945) 407,316 Korean War (1950-1953) 36,914 Vietnam War (1964-1973) 58,169 El Salvador (1980-1992) 20 Beirut (1982-1984) 266 Persian Gulf Support (1987-1988) 39 Invasion of Grenada (1983) 19 Invasion of Panama (1989) 40 Persian Gulf War (1991) 269 Somalia (1992-1993) 43 Bosnia 1995 12 Afghanistan (2002-2009) 686+ Iraqi (2003-2009) 4,299+ #1 Battle of Gettysburg Date: July 1-3, 1863 Location: Pennsylvania Confederate Commander: Robert E. Lee Union Commander: George G. Meade Confederate Forces Engaged: 75,000 Union Forces Engaged: 82,289 Winner: Union Casualties: 51,112 (23,049 Union and 28,063 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #2 Battle of Chickamauga Date: September 19-20, 1863 Location: Georgia Confederate Commander: Braxton Bragg Union Commander: William Rosecrans Confederate Forces Engaged: 66,326 Union Forces Engaged: 58,222 Winner: Confederacy Casualties: 34,624 (16,170 Union and 18,454 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #3 Battle of Chancellorsville Date: May 1-4, 1863 Location: Virginia Confederate Commander: Robert E. Lee Union Commander: Joseph Hooker Confederate Forces Engaged: 60,892 Union Forces Engaged: 133,868 Winner: Confederacy Casualties: 30,099 (17,278 Union and 12,821 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #4 Battle of Spotsylvania Date: May 8-19, 1864 Location: Virginia Confederate Commander: Robert E. Lee Union Commander: Ulysses S. Grant Confederate Forces Engaged: 50,000 Union Forces Engaged: 83,000 Winner: Confederacy Casualties: 27,399 (18,399 Union and 9)000 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #5 Battle of Antietam Date: September 17, 1862 Location: Maryland Confederate Commander: Robert E. Lee Union Commander: George B. McClellan Confederate Forces Engaged: 51,844 Union Forces Engaged: 75,316 Winner: Inconclusive (Strategic Union Victory) Casualties: 26,134 (12,410 Union and 13,724 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #6 Battle of The Wilderness Date: May 5-7, 1864 Location: Virginia Confederate Commander: Robert E. Lee Union Commander: Ulysses S. Grant Confederate Forces Engaged: 61,025 Union Forces Engaged: 101,895 Winner: Inconclusive Casualties: 25,416 (17,666 Union and 7,750 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #7 Battle of Second Manassas Date: August 29-30, 1862 Location: Virginia Confederate Commander: Robert E. Lee Union Commander: John Pope Confederate Forces Engaged: 48,527 Union Forces Engaged: 75,696 Winner: Confederacy Casualties: 25,251 (16,054 Union and 9,197 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #8 Battle of Stone's River Date: December 31, 1862 Location: Tennessee Confederate Commander: Braxton Bragg Union Commander: William S. Rosecrans Confederate Forces Engaged: 37,739 Union Forces Engaged: 41,400 Winner: Union Casualties: 24,645 (12,906 Union and 11,739 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #9 Battle of Shiloh Date: April 6-7, 1862 Location: Tennessee Confederate Commander: Albert Sidney Johnston/ P. G. T. Beauregard Union Commander: Ulysses S. Grant Confederate Forces Engaged: 40,335 Union Forces Engaged: 62,682 Winner: Union Casualties: 23,741 (13,047 Union and 10,694 Confederate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #10 Battle of Fort Donelson Date: February 13-16, 1862 Location: Tennessee Confederate Commander: John B. Floyd/Simon B. Buckner Union Commander: Ulysses S. Grant Confederate Forces Engaged: 21,000 Union Forces Engaged: 27,000 Winner: Union Casualties: 19,455 (2,832 Union and 16,623 Confederate)

I was with Bill on this until I found out the Polish school girl hottie on Sobo was 33 So I figure I have as good as chance as Sobo on this one. So I asked the wife if she would color my gray and would it help! I got a, "sure, honey, but it is white, not gray and no it won't help...just wear your cute little helmet 24/7 when you meet her". Talk about a buzz kill.

Dry an hr ago....might not be now.

Reality aint bad either.. Wouldn't that be kinda like dating the baby sitter Sobo Looks like we REALLY need to get you out on the rock again soon! Hard to belive she is 33 years old and 160cm tall Looks like she enjoys herself though!

Buying a company you assume both the assets and debts. The eventual $30 Million fine was an obvious debt Kanders inherited and was not directly or individually responisble for. I'd bet there was a clause in the contract covering the eventually though. "Investors Kanders and Schiller were wildly successful in their expansion of Armor Holdings Inc. Under their direction, Armor expanded rapidly, completing 60 acquisitions, and growing from an $11 million-a-year company to a $3.5 billion business in just 11 years. The diversified defense and homeland security company was bought by BAE Systems PLC (BAESY, BA.LN) for $4.5 billion." Looks like a good investment and good management to me on Kanders part. My point is you have no clue about the facts or Kander's involvement.

Obviously you have a reading comprehension issue. How about the actual facts? The real question is how all this (the entire topic and discussion) relates back to Clarus Chairman, Warren Kanders? The time line shows that it doesn't unless you have some specifics to add.

BS...I'd be one of the first to publically condemn both sides if the story had any resembalance of truth based on solid facts. This story is simply a fabrication of someone with extremely poor reading comprehension and a fertile imagination.

What I have found, lists two different issues. Armor Holdings actions that got them fined for bribes. http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/stock-alert/ah_armor-holdings-elaborate-sting-set-up-a-number-of-meetings-twenty-two-are-charged-with-violating-f-831487.html Then the Zylon issues in vests...previously cited and this: http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2008/October/08-civ-901.html The real question is how all this relates back to Clarus Chairman Warren Kanders. I can not find a direct connection.

How about the rampant speculators here of wrong doing post some credible links between the management (current or past) of Clarus and the Zylon armor debacle? More here: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100510-706620.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines By John Kell Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES Clarus Corp. (CLRS) on Monday agreed to acquire two sports-equipment manufacturing companies for a combined $135 million, as the investment vehicle looks to become a significant player in the outdoor equipment market. The company will pay $90 million in cash for Black Diamond Equipment Ltd. and $45 million for Gregory Mountain Products Inc. The Gregory Mountain payment will be half in stock valued at $6 a share and the rest in a seven-year note with a 5% coupon that will pay interest quarterly. The deal is being led by Clarus Chairman Warren Kanders; Robert Schiller, vice chairman of Gregory; as well as Peter Metcalf, a co-founder of Black Diamond who will be appointed president and chief executive of the new Clarus, which currently has no ongoing operations. Part of the transactions' allure involves investors Kanders and Schiller. The pair were wildly successful in their expansion of Armor Holdings Inc., a maker of military and heavy vehicles and soldier body armor. Under their direction, Armor expanded rapidly, completing 60 acquisitions, and growing from an $11 million-a-year company to a $3.5 billion business in just 11 years. The diversified defense and homeland security company was bought by BAE Systems PLC (BAESY, BA.LN) for $4.5 billion. Gregory is being sold by entities owned and controlled by Kanders and Schiller, who purchased Gregory through Armor in 2004, and later acquired the company from BAE in 2008. The initial acquisition of Gregory in 2004 inspired Schiller to look into the sports-equipment space. Since late 2002, Clarus has looked to use its cash and cash equivalents to acquire, merge with, or seek an operating business that would serve as a platform company. As of Dec. 31, Clarus had cash, cash equivalents and marketable securities of $82.4 million. Clarus last reported revenue in 2002. Kanders said Clarus was looking for companies with a global footprint and exposure to the Asian market. Black Diamond fit the bill. It sells skiing and climbing equipment through dealerships in the U.S. and abroad. It also sells its products on a company-run site, as well as through other online merchants. Gregory Mountain, meanwhile, sells backpacks in North America, Japan, China and France and earns more than half of its revenue in Asia. Black Diamond earns more than 40% of sales outside the U.S., with sales growth abroad outpacing the U.S. The largest development in sales-and-marketing efforts is in Europe, according to Metcalf. The company expects 2010 revenues on a combined basis to show continued growth. Last year, the two companies together produced combined revenues of approximately $113 million, according to Kanders. Metcalf said retailers were seeing a "resurgence in their business," in a number of outdoor categories, including hiking. He said that many of those outdoor activities are recession-resistant, noting Black Diamond posted an average of 14% growth over the past 20 years. For Black Diamond, the deal was key as the company faced capital limitations. It acquired four small companies over the past 20 years, and needed a jolt to launch itself into a space that has seen a number of acquisitions in recent years. Metcalf said there isn't a publicly traded entity that focuses on the space the way Clarus intends to. Clarus' board of directors and officers will together own about 35% of the approximately 21.6 million outstanding shares following the completion of the deal. The transactions are expected to close in the second quarter. Clarus expects to seek shareholder approval at its next annual meeting to adopt "Black Diamond Equipment" as the company's new name. The company expects to be headquartered in Salt Lake City. -By John Kell, Dow Jones Newswires; 212-416-2480; john.kell@dowjones.com

Here is more of what I found. http://oig.gsa.gov/allnews.cfm 02/16/2010 Companies Agree to Pay $4 Million to Settle Defective Bulletproof Vest Lawsuit On February 12, 2010, Lincoln Fabrics Ltd., a Canadian weaver of ballistic fabrics, and its American subsidiary, agreed to pay the United States $4 million to settle a lawsuit against Lincoln for violations of the False Claims Act in connection with their role in the weaving of Zylon fabric used in the manufacture and sale of defective Zylon bulletproof vests. Lincoln wove ballistic Zylon fabric for the body armor industry, and it was used in the manufacture of Zylon bulletproof vests sold by several GSA contractors including: Second Chance Body Armor Inc., First Choice Armor Inc. and Point Blank Body Armor Inc. These vests were purchased by the United States, and by various state, local, and/or tribal law enforcement agencies, which were partially reimbursed by the United States. It was alleged that the Zylon in these vests lost its ballistic capability quickly, especially when exposed to heat and humidity. It was also alleged that Lincoln was aware of the defective nature of the Zylon by December 2001, but it continued to sell Zylon for use in ballistic armor until August 2005, when the National Institute of Justice issued a report that Zylon degraded quickly in ballistic applications. In October 2009, the United States filed suit against Lincoln for violations of the False Claims Act and related claims. This settlement was a result of an ongoing investigation by the General Services Administration Office of the Inspector General, the Justice Department’s Civil Division, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia, the Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, the Defense Criminal Investigative Service, the U.S. Army Criminal Investigative Command, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, the Department of Energy Office of the Inspector General, the U.S. Agency for International Development Office of the Inspector General and the Defense Contracting Audit Agency. Click here (http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-136.html) for the DOJ article. 12/09/2009 Maker of Defective Bulletproof Vests Repays $6.75 Million for False Claims The United States has reached a $6.75 million settlement with Itochu Corp. of Japan and its American subsidiary, Itochu International Inc., to resolve claims under the False Claims Act in connection with the companies’ importation and sale of defective Zylon fiber used as the key ballistic material in bullet-proof vests purchased by the United States for federal, state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies, the Justice Department announced today. The Itochu companies imported the Zylon fiber on behalf of the Zylon manufacturer, Toyobo Co. Ltd. of Japan. The United States alleged that the Itochu companies were aware that the fiber degraded quickly over time and that the companies knew that this degradation rendered bullet-proof vests containing woven Zylon unfit for use. The government further alleged that, despite this knowledge, Itochu personnel actively participated in the marketing of the Zylon fiber and downplayed the extent of the degradation problem. "We will not tolerate companies that put the lives of law enforcement officers at risk by providing defective material for bullet-proof vests," said Tony West, Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department’s Civil Division. "This agreement resolves our allegations that these defendants wasted taxpayers dollars by failing to address problematic vests even after they were aware of them." This settlement is part of a larger government investigation of the industry’s use of Zylon in body armor. As part of today’s agreement, Itochu has pledged its cooperation in the government’s ongoing investigation. The United States has previously settled with five other participants in the Zylon body armor industry for over $47 million. Additionally, the United States has pending lawsuits against Toyobo Co., Honeywell Inc., Lincoln Fabrics, Ltd., Second Chance Body Armor Inc., and First Choice Armor Inc. Several former executives of Second Chance and First Choice are also named in those suits. Assistant Attorney General West acknowledged the contributions of the many federal agencies assisting the government’s ongoing investigation of the Zylon body armor industry, including the Justice Department’s Civil Division; the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia; the General Services Administration, Office of the Inspector General; the Department of Homeland Security, Office of Inspector General; the Department of the Treasury’s Inspector General for Tax Administration; the Defense Criminal Investigative Service; the U.S. Army Criminal Investigative Command; the Air Force Office of Special Investigations; the Department of Energy, Office of the Inspector General; the U.S. Agency for International Development, Office of the Inspector General; the Defense Contracting Audit Agency; and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 01/26/2009 Canadian Company to Pay U.S. More Than $1 Million Related to Sale of Defective Bullet-Proof Vests Washington, D.C. - infoZine - Barrday Inc. and two related companies have agreed to pay the United States more than $1 million to resolve allegations that they violated the False Claims Act in connection with their role in the weaving of Zylon fabric used in the manufacture and sale of defective Zylon bullet-proof vests, the Justice Department announced today. Barrday, headquartered in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada, is a weaver of ballistic fabrics and designs and produces specialty industrial textiles. The United States alleged that Barrday’s woven Zylon fabric was used in the manufacture of bullet-proof vests sold by Second Chance Body Armor Inc., Point Blank Body Armor Inc. and Gator Hawk Armor Inc. These vests were purchased by the United States, and by various state, local, and/or tribal law enforcement agencies, which were partially reimbursed by a Justice Department program. The government alleged that the Zylon in these vests lost its ballistic capability quickly, especially when exposed to heat and humidity. Barrday was reportedly aware of the defective nature of the Zylon by at least December 2001, but continued to sell Zylon for use in ballistic armor until approximately 2003, when two police officers were shot through their Second Chance Zylon vests. In 2003, Barrday was the first weaver to permanently withdraw from the Zylon market. "When a supplier of a component part distributes its product with knowledge of latent defects, that company violates the False Claims Act" said Michael F. Hertz, the acting Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division. "This settlement will help ensure that component suppliers are held responsible for materials that put our first-responders at risk." This settlement is part of a larger investigation of the body armor industry’s use of Zylon in body armor. As part of today’s agreement, Barrday has pledged its cooperation in the government’s on-going investigation. The United States previously has settled with four other participants in the Zylon body armor industry for over $46 million. Additionally, the government has pending lawsuits against Toyobo Co., Honeywell Inc., Second Chance Body Armor Inc. and four former Second Chance executives. Today’s settlement with Barrday was the result of an ongoing investigation by the Justice Department’s Civil Division, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia, the General Services Administration Office of the Inspector General, the Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, the Defense Criminal Investigative Service, the U.S. Army Criminal Investigative Command, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, the Department of Energy Office of the Inspector General, the U.S. Agency for International Development Office of the Inspector General, and the Defense Contracting Audit Agency. INFOZINE(KANSAS CITY, MO) - January 24, 2009

I don't know exactly how Clarus, or those that own Clarus, were involved at Armor Holdings if they did own the company on paper before charges and fines were levied. But I find it distrubing enough in several ways to make a concerted effort to find out the details on the allegations.

May be they use to (heard that complaint on the previous Phantom line up) but the ones I have had, older blue Scarpa Frenzy and the newest Phanton Guide fits me pretty much like Sportiva sizing which directly relates to US sizing. In this case 45 Scarpa to 45 La Sportiva to a US 11.5 is a direct comparison and fit me the same..in general.

Sorry Sobo I'll be in Boise, Sat and Sunday. Good luck on the surgery!

Some fancy boots on that girl Great TR, thanks!