billcoe

Amen to the 2nd part, but if the policeman wanna be is interested in joining the force to be helping folks:

This is certainly the case with the interstate bridge (i-405, the Fremont Bridge) . There have been a nesting pair there for a long time. Often they have been unsuccessful in breeding. Certainly a car accident at the wrong time would be devastatingly disruptive....and you've got massive diesel spewing trucks, noise, abrupt honking and huge car traffic on it daily, yet they never once closed it to the thousands of commuters....why? Easy to see why. Because it would be a bad move politically. Once you piss off that many people, the endangered species act would have been overturned by a march of half crazed Suburban and Expedition yuppie drivers the likes of which this country had never seen. LOL! Climbers are comparatively easy pickens:-)

I'll be there if it's dry ...but with rock shoes. Like for you to meet Chad (Lodestone) at some time if he's going to be there. He needs someone to grind him in the dirt, and it ain't me. 40 lbs and 30 years ago perhaps. :-) ...anyone else feel like a lap if it's dry?

Yes, certainly at first. Anderson went and looked before he announced the 1st closure at Cape Horn. The hikers have maintained that the birds have been there co-existing just fine with the hikers for years. That might be true, but I suspect that they do not have very good data on if the chicks were disturbed or not, as you cannot easily see them. Furthermore, in this circumstance, the trail is getting more and more people each year. I know that increased useage can be the case in Yos closures: for instance where they didn't close Superslide (Superslab it's called in reid I think) for many years until it got pretty popular. The birds had nested in the same place all along. You could see the birds gliding overhead dropping into a scrape not to very far away ...@ a city block up and left, appearing totally undisturbed and unconcerned. When they finally did close it, I talked the closure over with Link, the ranger at the time. He indicated that closure was finally put in place strictly due to increasing popularity. Nothing else had changed. Yet then last time I was there it was not closed, and you could see the birds, still apparently fine. I'm unsure why they flipped on it. Because of it's accessibility and visibility of the scrape, it would be nice if Beacon was more open and studied as a demo to see if climber/bird interaction could be closer. Most climbers who have spent a lot of time on rock near birds, and Bachers post on JH's Supertopo link is just one more nail there, believe there is no problem with it.

That thread was turning so far south I was hoping it would die:-) This is starting out much better, hope it contributes. ps, on the rope around the trees thing. I only heard it 2nd hand, I'm not sure if that was Wes's new leaver rope (hope not) but I will volunteer my time to show anyone who doesn't know how to do this: how to tie their own climbing rope around a tree in 5 seconds or less. So lets say between 2 trees would be 10 seconds plus the time it would take to walk the distance. I'm all about caring for you guys.

Is it too much to ask from hikers as well? You got your wish. The Cape Horn trail near The Far Side (you know the Far Side don't ya:-) was closed this year (by Dave Anderson, Washington Fish and Wildlife). Congrats! You got your request fulfilled. BTW -the locals who put in that "unauthorized" trail when they just showed up and stuck in it without permission or asking anyone as I understand it, have recently done some Forest service co-operate trail maintenance work on it. Interesting to see it evolve. It's a great spot for a trail and it's nice to see the FS get on board and helping everyone instead of closing it and arresting trespassers or whatever the alternative would be. Especially when that woman or couple fell off the cliffs @2-3 years ago and got SAR'ed out in a bag. BTW, if you want to check out 2 pretty nice (I believe) unclimbed pinnacles, let me know. Trail info and story here and here: http://www.wta.org/go-hiking/hikes/cape-horn Be careful if you take your little kids there as there is a huge assed drop right next to the cliff at one point.

When those routes were done out there, there was a lot of huge blocks overlaying good rock. When that was looked at, it was suspected that the entire rock you climb on, where the bolt should logically be -ie, where you and everyone is thinking is a better spot now, might have been unattached. Putting a bolt into something like that can be a disaster when you fall onto it and it turns into a pants pissing exercise much like Mr Toads Wild ride with the extreme un-happy 1000 lb block Hammer-Time finish. The left side had clearly already had the chunk fall off of it, thus, that was the place to put a bolt if a bolt was to be put. Years later, once some of the moss and choss is gone, the lines (cracks) - or lack up lines around a potential placement are much easier to determine. I haven't clipped that bolt the last many times I've done it. The route flows better, and the 2nd has less of a swing if they should boff it. As far as Jim moving the bolt, you can pitch it to him. Probably be a good idea AS LONG AS YOU ARE 100% CERTAIN THAT WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO PUT IT WILL NOT PULL OFF IN A VOLKSWAGEN SIZED BLOCK WITH A CLIMBER ATTACHED TO THE BOLT ATTACHED TO THE VOLKSWAGEN IF SOMEONE WAS TO LEADER FALL THERE. 100%. Have you examined it minutely and closely enough to determine if that is the case Steve? PS, haha! got to say Volkswagen twice! Woot!

Come on, we're not that stupid. They can leave them be, OR take them and call the number. They're climbing shoes and have the name on the side. People should just leave others stuff alone unless they are helping out. If they were helping, they would have called, thus, ergo no call: they must be stealing them. BTW, Lucky, check Craigslist for found shoes or found climbing shoes. You just never know.

From the Western Slope No Fee Coalition From WWW.westernslopenofee.org "NEWS BULLETIN! An important decision has been handed down by Federal Magistrate Judge Mark Aspey in Flagstaff, Arizona. He granted a motion by Sedona resident Jim Smith to have his ticket for failure to pay a Forest Service recreation fee (i.e. have a Red Rock Pass) dismissed. Jim parked overnight at the Vultee Arch Trailhead, a dirt parking lot with no amenities accessed by a rough dirt road. He backpacked into the Coconino National Forest, camped in an area with no amenities, and returned to find a ticket on his car because it did not display a Red Rock Pass. The Red Rock Pass fee program is one of the most notorious in the nation, requiring an access fee for 160,000 acres of federal public land, much of it dispersed undeveloped backcountry. Jim challenged the Forest Service's authority to levy a fee at Vultee Arch Trailhead because the law governing recreation fees specifically prohibits fees for parking, general access, walking through federal land without using facilities and services, camping in dispersed undeveloped areas, or in any location that does not offer reasonable access to six specific amenities: permanent toilet, permanent trash container, picnic table, developed parking, interpretive signage, and security services. The Vultee Arch Trailhead offers none of these amenities - it only serves as a place to park and enter undeveloped backcountry, both of which are activities the law says must be free of charge. The nearest toilet is 7 miles away and the nearest trash can is 10 miles away. Jim represented himself, and he was up against the full might of the federal government, but he won because he proved to the judge that the way the Forest Service is implementing fees in the Red Rock Pass area is not a reasonable interpretation of the law. In fact the decision describes the Forest Service's interpretation as "absurd": "In addition to the plain language of the statute prohibiting the Forest Service from charging for parking or access or undeveloped camping, and the plain language of the statute prohibiting the Forest Service from charging an amenity fee at a site where specific amenities were not provided, Congressional intent and legislative history indicate that the Forest Service's construction of the relevant statutory section would thwart Congressional intent and result in an absurd construction of the relevant statutory scheme." [decision p. 29] This is a very important decision, with national implications. There are almost 100 places around the country where the Forest Service has created "High Impact Recreation Areas" or HIRAs. Within a HIRA they have been claiming the authority to charge a fee for any activity at all as long as the six amenities exist somewhere in the HIRA, no matter how scattered or how far away. This interpretation has resulted in visitors being charged fees to access millions of acres of dispersed undeveloped backcountry. Judge Aspey says nix to all that. Among other things, this decision renders moot the signs in the Red Rock Pass area that say you have to buy a pass to park anywhere on the National Forest, and makes it unlikely that the Coconino - or any other National Forest - can ever again successfully prosecute someone for not having a pass at trailheads or dispersed camping areas. You can read more about the case, including all the legal briefs and the judge's decision, at our website. For a direct link to the decision

Sweet, but you're the only one to recognize it Dave, even though that's what this thread is pretty much evolved into. Woot! Regards to all: Bill

Normally I don't respond to you posts as you hide behind your anonymity, (and I'm at work waiting for a report to run) which seems pretty cowardly to me. I've seen what you are describing, but it seems to me that normal people see that hyperbole and not just disregard it as stupid over the line unreasonable unsubstantiated rantings and trash talk, but then they (the normal people) start discounting everything else the wing nut who is pitching way out to right field says. Those who talk and lie that way do themselves a disservice imo.

Homemade Ripple? Whoh, had a bad expedience as a 16 year old with ripple and I just threw up in my mouth a little bit in remembrance:-)

Nice rant. LOLZZZZ!

Mal con, that is absolutely hilarious! It moves a tad fast for reading the translation and watching at the same time, but worth seeing 2 times. The kid getting caught choking the chicken is particularly humorous and innovative for a cartoon "news" article.

I figured they'd look at the massive deficit that is still growing, realize that we need to get that monster under control and then do the right thing on the other side of the equation and the cuts would just expire....for everyone. Shit Rob, it's a Democratic President, and the dems control the House and Senate. As crazy as it seems, maybe they want to keep borrowing money form China to fund this amazing borrowing binge so that our kids can try to get out of this huge hole and finally pay off the debt 40 years from now.

LOL! Nice find. Time to brush up on the French speaking ability for the influx sure to arrive seeking the famous Cock and Ball doughnuts! ("Les plus célèbres du menu se nomment Cocks and Balls (pour celui en forme d’appareil génital masculin)").

Do you have a link? What are you referencing Rob? Are you talking about the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000 expiring? Or not expiring as the President is suggesting?

From Barak's inaugural address: Have not seen these questions even asked of big government yet. Perhaps they think that all Gov't programs are working, have no bad habits and are spending our money wisely. But we are keeping hope alive.....

Post them up here. Pictures or events that were before your time. Castle Rock, Washington Table Mountain also in the gorge.

Good luck with that! Why you would assume the collective brain trust of whiners around here could assist in this disproves any theory of your high intelligence level sir! LOL! Besides, this would be better discussed around a campfire with a beer as it's at least a full evenings conversation, and not a 2 min sound bite. I was going to finish my post with a pic of Sgt Schultz and his famous "I know Notzing" claim, but will toss this out instead.

filtered for consumption by the idiocracy and regurgitated by scumbag propagandists who don't stop claiming that Obama is a Muslim lover or some such. Good job, Piss Pot. Pfft, he's probably a closet regressive too.

Surely there must be some other redeeming value she brings to the table other than apparently making sure that all of our penis's don't go where she thinks they shouldn't go.

In 1929, the U.S. unemployment rate averaged 3%. In 1933, 25% of all American workers and 37% of all nonfarm workers were unemployed. In April 2010, the U.S. unemployment rate was 9.9%, but the government’s broader U-6 unemployment rate was 17.1%. There are six unemployed people, on average, for each available job.Men account for at least 7 of 10 workers who lost jobs, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. source Wikipedia ps, as an interesting heads up countering your title - the house, senate and the Presidency are all Democratic ruled/majority right now Bob.

Amazing stuff. Last time down to Vegas we did one of those long lines up a canyon, it was the one to the left of Josephs Fa. We could see Bighorn Sheep above us from a few pitches below the topout, but it was only as we got up there to the last pitch (an easy 5.3) that we noted from the scat on route, and knew then that these damn things were indeed not only climbing the easy 5.3 last pitch of the route we were finishing, but that they must have done some pretty sick off route moves to get over to the gully they had drifted into to avoid us - proving to me that they could outclimb many good rockclimbers. Gratuitous red rocks shot little bit down the canyon on another one of those kick assed long routes: Looking at that pic, I think I screwed that story up, this is the route to the left of JH's route Ujahn the hound and I did, so the other route is further down the way. Don't make me F**ing map it out or we'll all be lost eh? The part about the Sheep was right, but I might have screwed up my route locations.

She sure does have a big PURDY mouth... I hear banjo music....hmmm