billcoe

Sucks for all concerned. Damn sad for everyone for sure. Although the kneejerk reaction is to "pass a law", theres laws against drunk driving but drunks still plow into houses, pedestrians and cars, killing lots of folks on a near daily basis: and theres lots of laws against it. Passing one more law won't do anything, it's already illegal to shoot another human. The parents are still liable for this, and most likely will get sued into hell. I let my 18 year old go target practice with 3 of his buddies the other day without me (first time out without an adult for him) and was feeling bad, despite the kid having been through 2 hunter safety courses and having been out shooting with me as recently as the previous week. In fact, all the kids had been through hunter safety and have been handling firearms for years. It just felt strange to realize my son is near adult now and I not only don't have to dog him around, but theres almost an expectation not to.......he graduated last December and has has a lot of free time since.

"Abortion": a new route style. See also "Death Penalty".

Thanks for the update Kelly: a note to all sprayers, just do like I did as I couldn't make the meeting last night. Email the 2 commissioners above a brief note of support. I asked that it be read into the public record for the meeting last night. No reason not to do so immediately, basically a show of support for the park, making the community a better place to live as the area grows, etc etc. It would be faster than some of the diatribe we write here most likely. Lets make it massively overwhelmingly positive in support of a park.

Yes Bill....I wonder about the south as well.... I'm not connecting that statement.....what am I missing?

No, but whats the punchline Hugh? Kev, Madrone meeting tonight. 6-8pm.

On another thread, I pointed out that Obama is beholden for all that huge haul of campaign funds primarily to big operators. No on believed me, said he has all the little guys giving him pocket change and thats why he's got so much more money than McCain. Not true as it turns out. Here you go Kevbone. From the International Herald Tribune, (NY Times) normally a leftish paper. I don't think the story paints him badly, probably the same could be said of McCain as well. Now who do you want since thats been your core issue all along, ie your incorrect belief that McCain is getting all the money from big donors while Obama gets his from the lil fellas. Link to full artical. " Big donors are the key to Obama's record haul By Michael M. Luo and Christopher Drew Published: August 5, 2008 In an effort to cast himself as independent of the influence of money on politics, Senator Barack Obama often highlights the campaign contributions of $200 or less that have amounted to fully half of the $340 million he has collected so far. But records show that a third of his record-breaking haul has come from donations of $1,000 or more - a total of $112 million, more than the total of contributions in that category taken in by either Senator John McCain, his Republican rival, or Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, his opponent in the Democratic primaries. Behind those large donations is a phalanx of more than 500 Obama "bundlers," fund-raisers who have each collected contributions totaling $50,000 or more. Many of the bundlers come from industries with critical interests in Washington. Nearly three dozen of the bundlers have raised more than $500,000, including more than a half-dozen who have passed the $1 million mark and one or two who have exceeded $2 million, according to interviews with fund-raisers. While his campaign has cited its volume of small donations as a rationale for his decision to opt out of public financing for the general election, Obama has worked to build a network of big-dollar supporters from the time he began contemplating a run for the U.S. Senate. He tapped into well-connected people in Chicago before the 2004 Senate race, and, once elected, set out across the country starting in 2005 to cultivate some of his party's most influential money collectors. He courted them with the savvy of a veteran politician, through phone calls, meals and one-on-one meetings; he wrote thank-you cards and remembered birthdays; he sent them autographed copies of his book and doted on their children. The fruit of his efforts has put Obama's major donors on a pace that almost rivals the $147 million that President George W. Bush's Pioneer and Ranger network raised in $1,000-and-larger contributions in 2004 during the primary season. Given his decision not to accept public financing, Obama is counting on his bundlers to help him raise $300 million for his campaign for the general election and another $180 million for the Democratic National Committee. An analysis of campaign finance records shows that about two-thirds of his bundlers are concentrated in four major industries: law, securities and investments, real estate and entertainment. Lawyers make up the largest group at about 130, with many working for firms that also have lobbying arms. At least 100 Obama bundlers are top executives or brokers from investment businesses - nearly two dozen work for financial titans like Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and Citigroup. About 40 others come from the real-estate industry. The biggest fund-raisers include people like Julius Genachowski, a former senior official at the Federal Communications Commission and a technology executive who is new to big-time political fund-raising; Robert Wolf, president and chief operating officer of UBS Investment Bank; James Torrey, a New York hedge fund investor; and Charles Rivkin, an animation studio head in Los Angeles. "It's fairly clear that this is being packaged as an extraordinary new kind of fund-raising, and the Internet is a new and powerful part of it," said Michael Malbin, executive director of the Campaign Finance Institute. "But it's also clear that many of the old donors are still there and important." The care and feeding of top Obama fund-raisers underscores their significance to his campaign. Members of his National Finance Committee who fulfill their commitment to raise at least $250,000 are being rewarded with trips to the Democratic National Convention in Denver. Finance committee members participate in biweekly conference calls with top campaign officials. The fund-raisers meet quarterly, often with Obama dropping in. He lingered after the meeting last month in Chicago, telling his staff he wanted to thank every person in the room. Some fund-raisers who knocked on doors for Obama in places like Iowa, Pennsylvania and Indiana got to spend time with Obama backstage before and after speeches on primary nights. His fund-raisers invariably say their support for him is not rooted in any kind of promise of access but in their belief in him. "This is about Barack Obama and changing the direction of our country," said Jonathan Perdue, a business consultant in Mill Valley, California, who has raised more than $250,000 for Obama's campaign. Obama has pledged not to accept donations from federally registered lobbyists or political action committees. But some top donors clearly have policy and political agendas. Hedge fund executives, for example, have bundled large sums for Obama at a time their industry has been looking to increase its clout in Washington. Kenneth Griffin, chief executive officer of Citadel Investment Group in Chicago, has collected more than $50,000 for Obama. But Griffin, whose $1.5 billion in income in 2007 made him one of the top hedge fund earners, has given generously over the years to Republicans and recently helped host a fund-raiser for McCain. Citadel has spent more than $1.1 million since 2007 lobbying against higher tax rates for hedge funds. (Obama has supported the higher tax rates.) Similarly, Paul Tudor Jones, a billionaire hedge fund manager from Connecticut, has raised more than $100,000 for Obama. But he also gave to McCain, and two of McCain's Republican rivals in the primary campaign, Rudolph Giuliani and Mitt Romney. Jones, who has given more than $900,000 over the past decade to federal candidates and political organizations, helped form a trade association that has fought hedge fund regulation. Many fund-raisers sit on the campaign's array of policy working groups, getting a chance to weigh in on policy positions and speeches. Genachowski, a Harvard Law School classmate of Obama's, chairs the technology working group. Fund-raisers from private equity and hedge funds sit on Obama's economic policy group. Even as Obama seeks to contrast himself with McCain as a political outsider, updated bundler lists released recently by their campaigns show they have a similar number of high-dollar fund-raisers. Despite Obama's newcomer image, many of his bundlers are Democratic stalwarts, including some of the top fund-raisers for the party's 2004 nominee, Senator John Kerry. The Obama fund-raising operation is meticulously organized. Bundlers are assigned tracking numbers, and the finance staff sends them quarterly reminders of how they are doing in meeting their goals. "There's no price for admission," said Alan Solomont, a top Democratic fund-raiser in Boston who earned his fortune in the nursing home industry and has given more than $1.5 million to Democratic candidates and causes. "We value every donation and every donor equally, but we are a performance-based organization. We want everybody to feel like they're included, but at the same time we're not here to have tea together." Obama began courting many of his fund-raisers soon after he burst upon the national scene with his rousing speech at the 2004 Democratic national convention. Solomont, a major fund-raiser for both Kerry and Bill Clinton during their presidential runs, got a call on his cellphone in February 2005, a year after Obama's election to the Senate, from a member of his staff who asked whether he would like to get together with Obama. They met for Chinese food in Washington the following week, and Obama scored points with Solomont when he pointed out they were both community organizers earlier in their careers. "I've been involved in politics a long time," Solomont said. "Nobody's bothered to know that about me." Early the same year, Obama attended a dinner in the San Francisco Bay area of about 20 major Kerry supporters that was organized by Mark Gorenberg, a Silicon Valley venture capitalist who was Kerry's single biggest fund-raiser, after an inquiry from Obama's staff. Several on hand, including Gorenberg and John Roos, head of a Silicon Valley law firm, became among the earliest and biggest check collectors for Obama's presidential bid. In 2006, Obama became a vice chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, giving him the opportunity to campaign across the country and cultivate other potential benefactors. When his book, "The Audacity of Hope," came out later that year, his staff organized book parties at the homes of major Democratic donors. In December, Obama visited the New York office of the billionaire George Soros to court a roomful of high-powered Democratic fund-raisers, hoping to lure some of them away from Hillary Clinton. Not everyone was swayed, but Obama won over Orin Kramer, a hedge fund executive from New Jersey, and Wolf, the UBS executive, both of whom are now among Obama's biggest fund-raisers. Obama landed as his finance director, Julianna Smoot, who had headed fund-raising for Senate Democrats and previously for Senator Tom Daschle when he was majority leader. Guided by Smoot, a key part of the campaign's fast start was its success in scooping up top Kerry fund-raisers, including Lou Susman, a Chicago investment banker who was Kerry's national finance chairman, and Kirk Wagar, a Miami lawyer who became Obama's Florida finance chairman. Nevertheless, the campaign's initial meeting of its National Finance Committee was a relatively small affair - about 75 people in Chicago, the day after Obama officially announced his candidacy. Penny Pritzker, the billionaire heiress to the Hyatt hotel fortune, whom Obama asked to become his finance chairwoman, challenged the group to double in size. The number of bundlers ballooned quickly. The Obama campaign made important inroads among an affluent class under age 45, including Silicon Valley engineers and hedge fund analysts, many of whom had not been on the political radar screen. Donations in June, the latest month for which he has disclosed his donors to the Federal Election Commission, illustrate the double-barreled nature of the campaign's fund-raising. Obama brought in nearly $31 million in contributions of less than $200, his best month for small donations. But he also collected more than $12 million in contributions of $1,000 or more, the most since the first half of 2007. The share from large contributions appears poised to increase as Obama has stepped up his fund-raising schedule, rushing from one glitzy event to another. "In 2007, the campaign relied on the tried-and-true-methods like fund-raisers, for both large and small-dollar donors, with the candidate or his surrogates, and the Internet largely financed it in 2008," said Kirk Dornbush, the head of a bio-tech firm and a top fund-raiser in Atlanta. "When you combine the traditional fund-raising methods with the continued online contributions, you have a very, very powerful fund-raising engine.""

Thats the word I was searching for! Rove did it to McCain as well, this smear campaign, and it was brilliant that it succeeded yet still bullshit both times. Why the other voters gave that crap a pass is something I still wonder about.

Hardscrabble Quarry / Madrone Wall planning to begin August 6 with a public meeting at Still Meadow center Clackamas County Parks invites the public to a planning meeting for the Hardscrabble Quarry site on Wednesday, August 6, from 6 to 8 p.m. at Still Meadow Community center. The county is working with the community to complete a feasibility study and develop a concept plan to determine future uses and improvements to the Hardscrabble Quarry site. The 43 acre site, also known as the Madrone Wall, is located on Highway 224, just east of Carver. Purchased by Clackamas County in April 1937, the Hardscrabble Quarry was mined for road repair purposes and has been logged for timber and used by recreational rock climbers. It is currently not open to the public. Interested citizens are encouraged to participate in the process by attending the planning meetings or by submitting comments via mail, e-mail or telephone. Submitted comments will be presented during the public meetings. Still Meadow Community center is located at 16561 SE Marna Rd., Clackamas. Questions, suggestions or comments may be sent to Katie Dunham at kdunham@co.clackamas.or.us or at 503-794-8051, or to Chris VanDuzer at chrisv@co.clackamas.or.us or at 503-353-4663.

Nice to see someone getting out!

OK you pussies, where the hell do you folks go with out me? I got ditched. I went up there last night -there were some people up there but I didn't recognize a soul. So I went bouldering...and it was good. I saw some young fellas heading to Emotional rescue that had a Stick Clip, novel idea - I bet thats better than breaking both yer ankles. Any of you fuckers still climb?

Whoooo! we agree Matt, the world is upside down:-). Scott, the issue divided our country. There was a very large group of veterans who were outspoken against that war. They believed that it was a worthless endeavor that was needlessly killing civilians and young Americans. Regardless of ones opinion of the war, (this thread is taking a U-turn here I think) it took courage for Kerry to go to war, when many his generation were going to Canada, getting some kind of deferment, faking an illness to get a 4f rating, or getting their parents to pull some political strings to get excused from service or get in the National Guard so as get stateside only service. Then it took more courage to speak out and tell what he thought was the truth upon his return. The Bush machine chewed him up and all but painted him as a traitor, it did the same thing to John McCain in the primary. You'd have thought McCain had started working for the vietnamese from some of the inference of the Bush attacks. And thats wrong that we didn't call bullshit both times on that crap. I appreciated and respected how Obama resisted getting sucked into name calling during the primary against Hillary, it will be interesting to see if he can keep that up as the election gets closer. My opinion anyway. Your results will vary of course. Take care all!

Is that a treasure map on your back dude? OMG! Outted! Run Gillagan RUN!

That's a great rant SS, I gotta disagree though on a couple of points. 1st, you say Kerry was a bad candidate. Kerry was the better dude. The Bush assholes tore McCain an asshole or 3 during the primaries with the same shit as well: and its bullshit and doesn't make him a "bad" candidate IMO. I voted for Kerry primarily based on how the POS that hid under his bed and his fathers skirts let that political debasement via the swift boaters happen. ONE Swift boater, a lifelong Republican and a fella from my state, came out during the election and testified that HE was the Green Beret that Kerry pulled out of the water while under intense fire, and that he'd never seen any of those other MFers clamoring that Kerry was something other than what he was, which was pretty dam courageous on Kerrys part IMO. That he stepped forward and tried to stop an injustice only proved the truth of it to me. So it seemed clear that voting for Kerry was the best thing...to me. Next, I do not believe that one nearly relinquishes their honor by merely entering politics. I suspect the opposite. Usually folks get in due to the desire to effect positive change. The whirlwind of Washington sucks up many and tosses them into reverse mode, and it does seem like the presidential candidates still fit your statement. Yet many congressmen and senators do not. They are there to fight the good fight for truth and justice. Later, they become Ted Stevens - and they should be tossed out before they are tired old hags trading favors like Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd or John Stennis IMO. Too bad they are not. Good rant though. I think that the reality is that we owe those who step forward and put the pedal to the metal and their lives at risk as a gift to all of US a huge debt, and it doesn't lesson as we complain about the leadership directing the bus off the road, but is an even more important and significant debt in that circumstance IMO. McCain did something back then which most of us would and probably could NEVER do, and that is to tell his jailers to FUCK OFF. He spit into their faces, some of the meanest son of a bitches around, when they were offering to release him alone, and not the others who were more deserving. It was heroic by any measure or definition of the word in any country or any century. DAMN HEROIC. Both of these men can do a passable job of running the country. One has proven his will in the crucible that none of us can fathom. The other is damn smart and likable. Both have big negative issues as well. Tough call in my opinion. Good luck, I suspect we will chose one of them!

That's a great question, how did you come to live in the US Bob? I'm genuinely interested. I live near all the Poles in my town, and it's great to go to the secret Polish dinner spot and hear them all talking in Polish and see pictures of Polish heroes and Generals on the wall I've never heard of. I always drink Zweibek beer, the Porter kicks my ass, and buy something Polish before I leave, like a liter of fruit drink or an interesting chocolate bar, the family loves it. They got a Perogi, sausage, stuffed cabbage, and Hunter stew (called Vigo, bad spelling) combo plate that is like $6.00 - stuffs ya full, and rules. Mostly it's the 13% beer that ya remember, that and the kind folks. Very gracious. The owners son works there, is my sons age, and has just finished High school and pulled a 4.0. How did you come to live here Bob? Bet it's a great story, I have a good one of how we moved from Colorado, but I bet yours is better.

probably snacked on the 2 Jack Russell terriers next door first:-)

BBC link to same story France says it wasn't them. " France accused in Rwanda genocide Rwanda genocide survivor praying next to skulls (file picture) Some 800,000 people died in the 1994 genocide in Rwanda Rwanda has accused France of playing an active role in the genocide of 1994, in which about 800,000 people were killed. An independent Rwandan commission said France was aware of preparations for the genocide and helped train the ethnic Hutu militia perpetrators. The report also accused French troops of direct involvement in the killings. It named 33 senior French military and political figures that it said should be prosecuted. France has previously denied any such responsibility. Among those named in the report were the late former President, Francois Mitterrand, and the then Prime Minister Edouard Balladur. Two men who went on to become prime minster were also named - Alain Juppe, the foreign minister at the time, and his then chief aide, Dominique de Villepin. The French foreign ministry told the BBC it would only respond to the fresh allegations after reading the report, which was released on Tuesday afternoon. Checkpoints Earlier this year France's Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner denied French responsibility in connection with the genocide, but said political errors had been made. The Rwandan government has urged the relevant authorities to bring the accused French politicians and military officials to justice Rwandan justice ministry Some 800,000 minority Tutsis and moderate Hutus were slaughtered by Hutu militias in just 100 days in 1994. The report says France backed Rwanda's Hutu government with political, military, diplomatic and logistical support. It accuses France of training Hutu militias responsible for the slaughter, helping plan the genocide, and participating in the killings. "French forces directly assassinated Tutsis and Hutus accused of hiding Tutsis... French forces committed several rapes on Tutsi survivors," said a statement from the justice ministry cited by AFP news agency. "Considering the seriousness of the alleged crimes, the Rwandan government has urged the relevant authorities to bring the accused French politicians and military officials to justice," the statement said. It further alleged that French forces did nothing to challenge checkpoints used by Hutu forces in the genocide. "They clearly requested that the Interahamwes contine to man those checkpoints and kill Tutsis attempting to flee," it said. Testimonies The BBC's Geoffrey Mutagoma in the Rwandan capital, Kigali, says the commission spent nearly two years investigating France's alleged role in the genocide. It heard testimonies from genocide survivors, researchers, writers and reporters. The 500-page document was presented to the Rwanda's government last November, but was not made public until now. Rwanda has repeatedly accused France of arming and training the Hutu militias that perpetrated the genocide, and of dragging its feet in co-operating with the investigations that followed. France has maintained that its forces helped protect civilians during a UN-sanctioned mission in Rwanda at the time. The two countries have had a frosty relationship since 2006 when a French judge implicated Rwandan President Paul Kagame in the downing in 1994 of then-President Juvenal Habyarimana's plane - an event widely seen as triggering the killings. President Kagame has always denied the charge. He says Mr Habyarimana, a Hutu, was killed by Hutu extremists who then blamed the incident on Tutsi rebels to provide the pretext for the genocide. "

cue unknown language 3...,2....., 1....

What ground up policy is that? I think it's called the policy of "Survival of the Fittest", but lets ask "Slim". Slim says: "Yeeehhhh Hahhh! Well that was a waste of time.

HOLA Graham: I was going to email you a request for an update on the packs, figured you'd be busy with Vegas.

!! !! Seriously, taking a Slim Pickens on one of those monster blocks would cause me to reconsider a strict ground up policy as well:-) It's not like you a grabbing a primo line and defiling it. Theres been a single dude take a look and turn back in fear and loathing, then thousands of climbers look at this over the next 20 some odd years and they all left it be. ...for a reason perhaps? ....

Yes, BTW, fu*ing A right Steven: bolt installer and bolt clipper too. You can literally see the 4 fixed ropes and 5 gallon bucket full of bolts hanging @250" or so off the deck here at the Cathedral Formation behind my lad. We wuz shotgun shootin' dem clay pigeon thingys dere one day this weekend. Here's 4 different shotguns that all saw a shell or so that day. Oh looky, we just missed the lil Dawg in action the previous week: same location at Gothic Rocks - Cathedral Formation. Oh, a new bolt, a massively gigantic 1/2-13 x 7" long stainless steel wedge anchor, about to get whanged in with the classic Forrest Wall hammer now on permaloan to the Jim Opdycke museum and old climbers home. That climber looks happy, wonder if it's the 7" bolt length? Maybe folks should do what Dawg says to do (not what Don does?) and just hang off the lump of rock like this to belay and protect, and not install bolts? It's only 150' off the deck here and no cracks or trees in sight, what could possibly go wrong it the leader pitched? Maybe thats what Dawg would do, get a boulder pad and aim for it if it went bad? At least you wouldn't hit much on the way down. Look, a 1/2-13 x 7" long stainless steel wedge anchor closeup. ..........Soon, oh yes, she will be mine. Like the misty vague memory of a sweet, soft, caressing touch, or a near forgotten young love, she resides in my mind, a crackless wonder of soaring flying buttresses - almost ..... but never forgotten Gothic Rock masterpiece.

7/03/08 166 6/27/08 164 6/20/08 167 7/18/08 164 7/25/08 164 8/01/08 163

If by country you define it as the land, nothing to whine about there eh Kev, we are blessed with an amazing richness and natural diversity that has protected and buttressed us from huge natural disasters. As far as the government goes, check out current events/whats happening in China now just as a point of comparison.

link ...and no free press either "....The border police have apologized after they ``clashed'' with the journalists who were trying to film a restricted area under police control, Xinhua said. The journalists have accepted the apology and police offers to pay for repairs to their damaged equipment and medical bills, the Chinese state news agency said. Police also entered the hotel room of an AFP photographer and forced him to delete photos he had taken of the attack scene in Kashgar, AFP said in a separate report." Interesting that they quoted "the Chinese state news agency" that the journalists were OK with it. Makes you wonder where the journalists were ? Ha ha, nice sleight of hand trick. ___________________________________________________________ They have a 100,000-strong security force on alert for terrorists while 300,000 surveillance cameras watch the city. Makes you wonder if you can even see Tienanmen square or Maos tomb with all the green uniforms crawling on it. Wow, 300,000 cameras.