RuMR

I think his pic is showing that...and newhalem is a total atrocity as far as the bolting...

well scott, you're a stud! If i was near my limit and near the ground w/ talus, and the gear opportunities were available, i'd probably have about the same amount of gear in as those bolts... Broken ankles suck

anytime you wanna come climb w/ me and show me how bold you are, i'm game...and don't play that game of going down 4 number grades from your onsight limit... Those people may be pushing their limits, no? and that's not a fist jam...

Yeah, scott, seein' as that's a FRICKEN ROAD CUT that was accessed into the cliff, you are right, those bolts are heinous... And i bet you could stuff all kinds of gadgetry back behind those loose blocks for pro! And look at all of those unhappy faces!! Such a poor use of that road cut and condemned road for recreational activity...we must condemn and abhor it till the end of time Thanks for supporting my position!!

So...tell me all about the protectable faces there...i'm listening??????????????? That crag would be tapped out at about 10 routes all checking in under .11-...fine and dandy for really good climbers that climb .12 and up...they wouldn't have any problems with the runout 5.10's at all...but let's talk about ALL of the other users there and the fun and good times that they have cuz other lines have been filled in at ALL grades w/ decent protection... And, FWIW, the hard routes (13- and up) are fairly runout w/ 25 to 40 foot fall potential common on them...

actually scott, i'm just sick of your same tired old rant...seein' as i tried to drag you up to 32 so you could see what i was talking about BEFORE you dissed the bolting done there...so now i'm just playing but i couldn't get you out there...so be it... You sound like a broken record w/ your main point being that bolting is the easy way out...Not everyone sees bolts as a hideous infestation...many see them as an opportunity to go have an enjoyable time... You won't change my mind, and i won't change yours...this thread is stupid and tired...i could probably dig up a mirror thread from last year, the year before, blah blah and it'll read the same...

you can count the number of sport climbs I have been on with two hands. so...maybe you can't judge then? that's great logic. i haven't tried heroin either. should i try that just to be sure?!? I dunno...you'd probably dig heroin, seein' as your a crack whore...or is it a crack climber???

you can count the number of sport climbs I have been on with two hands. so...maybe you can't judge then?

Man, you sure started a whopper thread!

Squaw, you weren't talking about the visual effects of bolts, you were spraying some touchy-feely bullshit about inspiration. This is irrelevant to your argument. Please continue, I feel the enlightenment seeping in. Is it Squaw or Squat or or Scott? Ahh, i'm so confused now???

I like nude art!! You gotta problem w/ nude art?

Ahhh...truly the master of hyperbole...you'd have to fend off all of the wuss sportclimbers waving their stickclips at you...

ahhh....you got me...but i'd still bet that 95% of the general population wouldn't care...

Squaw TalkaLottaShitt is!!!

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so? majority wins, minority LOSES (except w/ that asshole, Bush) Great aint it? well the majority of people will need via-ferrata to climb 90% of the climbs at index... should we be gathering iron or will you ocncede that this argument is faulty at best? Nope...won't concede...its a continuum...you said 90%...general population this is true...90% of climbers, not true... but we are talking about the general population. we do not own crags just because we are uber-cool climbers. NO! we are users just like anyother user. our climbing gives us no priviledge except the one we make by busting our ass and climbing cool shit. being a climber dont mean shit. But we are entitled to our fair share of the resources available...Smith Rocks State Park has a longstanding cooperative relationship w/ climbers...the town of Rifle caters to climbers as does Ouray to ice climbers (closest to sport that ice can get)...NRG is very close w/ climbers... We have a right to the resources just like any other user group... Paint the bolts and only the climbers will know they are there...

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so? majority wins, minority LOSES (except w/ that asshole, Bush) Great aint it? well the majority of people will need via-ferrata to climb 90% of the climbs at index... should we be gathering iron or will you ocncede that this argument is faulty at best? Nope...won't concede...its a continuum...you said 90%...general population this is true...90% of climbers, not true...

well, my approach is that there are "areas" like English gritstone, and German Elbsandstein and Indian Creek and cracks in any granite areas that are deemed "traditional" and left that way... Other areas are sport intensive... Seems very obvious to me, and i think the only conflict, is like Matt said, what do with new areas!

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so? majority wins, minority LOSES (except w/ that asshole, Bush) Great aint it?

but climbers go out of there way to go on a climb and should be prepared for he endeavor. 6 year old crossign the street do so out of necessity. weak juxtaposition. bolts are for safety? well if you are concerned about safety, then climbing is not the sport for you. people die all the time doign this sport. this is a sport of calculated risks. if you aren't up for a certain climb then wait until you get stronger/bolder (alaCroft) and climb that shit! Nice chestbeat for a wanker! PS Rudy, I nearly sprayed coffee out of my nose! Just make sure you don't spray it on your school work...

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... Why not just go up the route w/ your rack and not clip the bolts if you really wanna be on the edge? Oh right, forgot, that offense to your aesthetic feel will be so great that you'll be unable to concentrate on the wicked runouts

aw Chief. ran outta ritalin, Chief? Whatever, Chief. Why don't you go do some homework, Chief. Later, Chief! Cracked, i think his proper address is SquawTalkaLottaShitt....

New wave old skool! don't forget an entire sleep country store inventory to protect the shitty landing!

or you could bash pins into it and clip them w/ stolen 'biners for the truly ethical and pure ascent...

why climb it? i dont understand this. mabe it is a different perspective on what it means to climb, but if i have to bolt the fuck outta a rock so i feel i can ascend, what have i accomplished? see my auto sig for details. as for the action... i was not talking about climbing there cheif. A bunch of the lines that they've done they DID W/O THE BOLTS first, then went back and protected them for others...Why can't you get that?? And many people are into the gymnastic quality of climbing...but don't really feel like dying if they blow their "routine"...and don't pull that crap about tr-ing...many of these pitches are unaccessible from the top down...