RuMR

Man, you sure started a whopper thread!

Squaw, you weren't talking about the visual effects of bolts, you were spraying some touchy-feely bullshit about inspiration. This is irrelevant to your argument. Please continue, I feel the enlightenment seeping in. Is it Squaw or Squat or or Scott? Ahh, i'm so confused now???

I like nude art!! You gotta problem w/ nude art?

Ahhh...truly the master of hyperbole...you'd have to fend off all of the wuss sportclimbers waving their stickclips at you...

ahhh....you got me...but i'd still bet that 95% of the general population wouldn't care...

Squaw TalkaLottaShitt is!!!

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so? majority wins, minority LOSES (except w/ that asshole, Bush) Great aint it? well the majority of people will need via-ferrata to climb 90% of the climbs at index... should we be gathering iron or will you ocncede that this argument is faulty at best? Nope...won't concede...its a continuum...you said 90%...general population this is true...90% of climbers, not true... but we are talking about the general population. we do not own crags just because we are uber-cool climbers. NO! we are users just like anyother user. our climbing gives us no priviledge except the one we make by busting our ass and climbing cool shit. being a climber dont mean shit. But we are entitled to our fair share of the resources available...Smith Rocks State Park has a longstanding cooperative relationship w/ climbers...the town of Rifle caters to climbers as does Ouray to ice climbers (closest to sport that ice can get)...NRG is very close w/ climbers... We have a right to the resources just like any other user group... Paint the bolts and only the climbers will know they are there...

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so? majority wins, minority LOSES (except w/ that asshole, Bush) Great aint it? well the majority of people will need via-ferrata to climb 90% of the climbs at index... should we be gathering iron or will you ocncede that this argument is faulty at best? Nope...won't concede...its a continuum...you said 90%...general population this is true...90% of climbers, not true...

well, my approach is that there are "areas" like English gritstone, and German Elbsandstein and Indian Creek and cracks in any granite areas that are deemed "traditional" and left that way... Other areas are sport intensive... Seems very obvious to me, and i think the only conflict, is like Matt said, what do with new areas!

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so? majority wins, minority LOSES (except w/ that asshole, Bush) Great aint it?

but climbers go out of there way to go on a climb and should be prepared for he endeavor. 6 year old crossign the street do so out of necessity. weak juxtaposition. bolts are for safety? well if you are concerned about safety, then climbing is not the sport for you. people die all the time doign this sport. this is a sport of calculated risks. if you aren't up for a certain climb then wait until you get stronger/bolder (alaCroft) and climb that shit! Nice chestbeat for a wanker! PS Rudy, I nearly sprayed coffee out of my nose! Just make sure you don't spray it on your school work...

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... Why not just go up the route w/ your rack and not clip the bolts if you really wanna be on the edge? Oh right, forgot, that offense to your aesthetic feel will be so great that you'll be unable to concentrate on the wicked runouts

aw Chief. ran outta ritalin, Chief? Whatever, Chief. Why don't you go do some homework, Chief. Later, Chief! Cracked, i think his proper address is SquawTalkaLottaShitt....

New wave old skool! don't forget an entire sleep country store inventory to protect the shitty landing!

or you could bash pins into it and clip them w/ stolen 'biners for the truly ethical and pure ascent...

why climb it? i dont understand this. mabe it is a different perspective on what it means to climb, but if i have to bolt the fuck outta a rock so i feel i can ascend, what have i accomplished? see my auto sig for details. as for the action... i was not talking about climbing there cheif. A bunch of the lines that they've done they DID W/O THE BOLTS first, then went back and protected them for others...Why can't you get that?? And many people are into the gymnastic quality of climbing...but don't really feel like dying if they blow their "routine"...and don't pull that crap about tr-ing...many of these pitches are unaccessible from the top down...

ok...clarify your "action" comment? and your "money" comment... they both seemed to me to imply that bolters around here were lazy and took the easy way out by buying a $600 drill and pussifying the lead... Explain where my interpretation went wrong...

uhh...what is the "no action" bullshit for, then? and what's this about money? And self glorification? There is no bigger glorification issue than busting out some stupid 5.whateverX route then leaving it that way and saying "go ahead, try it" is there???? SO that's what they've done often, then they go back and protect it for others...glorifying huh?

missed cracked!

My whole friggin point was that they aren't lazy, ie bolting the line for their own leads but for others...Don't trash talk people you don't know...regardless of the side of the fence you are on...trashtalking their actions is fine, but you don't know them, so don't presume to know their motivations and whether they are lazy...they aren't... and scott, don't be telling others (me) what's cool to climb and what's not...i don't give a shit how hard or not you climb...there are trad areas and there are sport areas...what's so difficult about that...i see no difference between smith and an in-bound ski area...it is there for recreating in...you don't like it, buzz off, go somewhere else...ie, ski outta bounds... later "chief"...

Scott...you are being an idiot...Do you even know any of the bolters in this area? Too much money? You haven't really a clue, do you??? ...and not enough action??? WHATDAFUCK? You sit here and spray on your computer 24-7 like the rest of us punters, while the folks out there developing areas are busting their asses...Most of these guys literally climb 3 number grades harder than the routes they put up...often times they've already climbed the line via natural gear...THEN they go back and clean it up and protect it for the average climber... You ought to maybe meet the people you are slamming before you slam them...Quit shit-talking about people you don't know and haven't met, it makes you look uninformed...

No spray intended...

how come there's never a "guyzrock" or something like that??? What about equal rights?? Hunting for climbing partners just sux...

Tim...leave that thing alone...don't climb for at least 3 weeks, if it feels ok then, GRADUALLY start climbing harder stuff and if you must climb now, stay outta pockets/crimps and only climb BIG jugs... It sounds more like chronic as opposed to acute (actual tearing)...give it time...you break it, and your done for a year or more... I popped a tendon in 1994 and it took close to two years before it felt anything like healed...