Off_White

Please chucK, get rid of that nasty little animation, bring back the skull...

Go do it SK, the change in perspective alone will be worth it. We'll (well, maybe that Krazy 1) will make an alpinist out of you yet. Think about it, three days, no kids, it sounds pretty good, eh?

quote: Originally posted by bellemontagne: [QB]I think part of this trend towards preplacing gear on hard trad climbs is so that climbers can get their names in the climbing media. /QB] For some reason this brought to mind the headlines I just read in the line at the supermarket that Tom and Nicole were back together again. Truth be told, celebrity achievement and high end ascents have so little to do with me (and I reckon most of us on this board) that it might as well be in People magazine for all the relevance it has to a person who is just tickled to get out about. Are they back together or did she just give him a blowjob in the back of the limo? Preplace or onsight that 5.13d crack? Same difference to me.

quote: Originally posted by erik: look at the recent claim of 3 'experienced' climbers trapped on glacier peak And to think I just assumed they were trippin' Doctor, nice to have you aboard. Others may not agree, but its good to have an unabashed sport climbing advocate around here as another perspective, when most are into puffing up about who is more trad than the next. Talk about PC! If we all agreed about everything this place would be snoozeville. Me, I like it all, and if you're not wearing wool knickers, nailed boots, and hemp rope then its all new fangled whack-and-dangle tomfoolery to me.

quote: Originally posted by Juneriver: Anytime I get up something that my partner can't... It's the best route in the world. I guess the reverse works to define the worst route at the crag too!

Hmmm, think ahead and mail it to yourself? I know they wouldn't let my 86 year old mother in law take her fingernail clipper...

Yah, I had the same reaction, the logic made no sense to me. They said its okay to pre-clip for sport routes because it makes it easier? That's exactly the point! Then last night, reading the fine print in Kevin McLane's current Squamish guidebook, I find he lays out the same guidelines as R&I for ascent definition. Turns out its not the Euro's, its the Canadians! Anyway, it seems to be more widespread as a definition. Me, I know it feels when I actually do the route, and thats what matters in my book.

"Dennis And Caveman, Together At Last!" All I want to know is who has the film rights? Have fun up there, and don't be playing tag with no rockfall.

This is a better thread than the poli sci 101 troll, isn't it? I'd agree with Figger 8 that the people on the trip are really what makes the route, so here's a little story for ya'll.. One of my fav's was Goodrich to Rim on the Apron in Yosemite. Its a grade V, but all free at 5.9, and I've always adored friction climbing. With friends Galen and Mike, we climbed up to the Oasis to bivy. Water at the bivy site, luxurious ledges, it was great, except the damned snafflehounds robbed the fruit from under my pillow in the middle of the night. Now, Mike had claimed to have done the route the summer before with Bob, another friend. After a couple months Bob had come clean and admitted they just wanted to report an active season in the Valley and they had not actually done the route. The trick is, Galen and I did not let Mike know the we were aware he hadn't done the route. The second day after the Oasis, things get a little weird and unnerving. The route gets steeper and has vastly less traffic, and routefinding is difficult. You wind up wandering around way up high, even downclimbing for part of a pitch, and working your way over to the U-shaped bowl. At every opportunity, about 3 or 4 times per pitch, we kept asking Mike, "Where does it go now Mike?" and Mike was starting to come apart at the seams from the stress of trying to maintain the fiction that he'd been there, when in fact he hadn't a clue where the route went. The final capper was when we got to the last bit, which the old green Roper guide referred to as 3rd & 4th class. We had earlier pressed Mike for details, and he said that he and Bob had just simulclimbed on slabs, putting in a piece here and there. In reality, it was dirt hiking up a corner, and no rope was needed. After we got to the top, Mike sulked and stewed for a few minutes before Galen and I burst out laughing and explained the whole joke to him. It didn't seem like he thought it was as funny as we did, which of course only made us laugh harder. For years after that you could get him to turn red by simply asking "Where do we go now Mike?"

*sigh* One of these times I'll figure out there's a whole next page before I respond to something that's already ancient history in the life of a thread. Anyway, the beloved Truman doctrine has shot ourselves in the ass more than once. It simply doesn't follow that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and using that simple assumption as a basis for foreign policy is butt ignorant.

quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: Furthermore, in case you had forgotten the Soviets had achieved roughly military parity with the western world and it was surmised that they would and could easily roll over Western Europe in 14 days. Ground combat in Afghanistan using subterfuge was superior to mass death of Euro and US combat elements... Gotta call bullshit on that one Mike. The legendary Soviet Military Parity was a hoax concoted to facilitate expansion of the military budget. It has been shown that the CIA completely fabricated their statistics (Haven't they gotten a few other things wrong recently?). While Reagan was building the deficit buying toys, the Russians were already toast. Kruschev had it wrong: he didn't bury us, they buried themselves. The bit about opening up heroin markets is pretty nice when juxtaposed with the whole war on drugs travesty.

Its too late, he's gone, but Oz and the Gram Traverse would be way cool.

quote: Originally posted by CaptainCrag: I bet John Roskelly would call you an idiot to your face and tell you to stay home next time. I don't care who flames...you can't touch me so fuck off in advance... John Roskelly = Agent Orange

quote: Originally posted by dyno merchant: quote:Originally posted by plexus: Not died but just cowered away with my tail inbetween my legs and a carabiner left for a lower off as I received encouragement, "You can do that. IT doesn't look that hard." Only to find out halfway up that the friggin 5.11 is way beyond my range. Cheers what the hell is this??? Sounds like a trip report from one of your routes...

quote: Originally posted by trask: we men are not intimidated by childish gurly games and surveys never forget the cc.com alma mater... us mountaineers we have no fears we do not care for riches we knock our cocks against the rocks us hearty sons-a-bitches* The version I always heard went: Oh, mountaineers have leather ears They pee through rubber britches They wipe their ass on broken glass Them hardy sons-a-bitches Anyone have any more verses? The CC.com fight song.

quote: Originally posted by sk: I saw where you gave up spray today because of bad karma... but I missed where you decided that spray does not affect the karma... Did someone guess your password? if not welcome back to the game bro I reckon thats what happens when you chase your humble pie with 12 pack of schmidt...

quote: Originally posted by jon: quote: I suspect if anyone spelled it out, the shifty gods that run this place would change the rules again. Hey what the fuck is that supposed to mean? Its a compliment Jon. To be a wily and capricious lesser god is way more fun than being the big cheese. Think Loki as opposed to Odin, or Coyote compared to Creator. And why would you want to be the lord of a lower realm unless you were going to mess with people now and then? PS: errr, don't smite me, ummmm, oh great and, ehhh, wonderful? yeah, wonderful one. [ 07-31-2002, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Off White ]

quote: Originally posted by ehmmic: Off white - so is all this spelled out somewhere? I'm wondering when I get to gumby status... Not spelled out, I've interpolated from seeing how many posts there are for various new titles. I suspect if anyone spelled it out, the shifty gods that run this place would change the rules again. I think you should go on a spray fest until you top 200 posts and see if that does it for you...

quote: Originally posted by James: what is an HC lover horsecock lover: someone with between 50 and 100 posts. Be persistent and you will graduate to Chief Wanker.

quote: Originally posted by jon: Fine I'll say it. I think it's bogus you guys organized a "secret" pub club in Seattle behind the Tacoma guys backs. I think it's bullshit that you then posted the list of who went after the fact as if you are trying to prove something. They have driven up here for every Seattle one that I've been to. If you don't want to drive down there when it's their turn that's fine, but at least show them a little courtesy and raise the issue about maybe revising the rotation instead of starting your own little pub club and then taking a shit and shoving it in their face. Awww, they're just sport drinkers, afraid of a little approach march. You know, the drink off your bumper crowd. It wasn't that secret, and it didn't really rate as a topic of conversation in Tacoma last night. Typical though, since as anyone who doesn't live in the greater Seattle ex-urb knows, the damn town thinks it owns the whole state. Secret Seattle Pub Club = Gary Locke Kudos to ehmmic for coming all the way down, it was a pleasure to meet you.

Anyone done it? Beckey says 200' of rappelling from the tower to the lower ledge system. My question is can it be conveniently done with a single 50 meter rope?

quote: Originally posted by Poseur:There are a multitude of corpoations that have been in business during the last 30 years and no rivers have caught on fire and no lakes have spit out its fish on the shoreline.[/QB]While I can't think of any high profile burning rivers in recent times in this country, I'll wager they've happened in the developing world, which is inhabited by the same large corporations as operate here. If I were a dilgent researcher rather than a shoot from the hip blabberer I'd provide examples. I know fish kills from industrial pollution and spills are a regular occurence. Anybody wanna have a fish fry with halibut caught in Commencement Bay in Tacoma? That said, I do think these things have gotten much better in the US over the last 30 years. For me, its not about blanket condemnation of corporations, its about understanding what they do and how they work. A corporation's reason for being is to make a return on investment for its shareholders. If environmental protection gets in the way of that profit, the corporation wants to get out of the protection requirement. Indeed, it's their mandate to try and do whatever possible to maximize that return on investment. This is why manufacturing moves to where labor is cheaper and regulation is lax, it makes more money. The environmental protection piece of things is imposed on the corporations, either by regulation (hence the EPA) or the more nebulous bit of "market forces" which is mostly about the negative public relations attached to doing business in a manner that revolts your potential consumers. Both forms of control work, but the market force model depends on the various activist groups that focus attention on the hidden atrocities of production. I think those of Libertarian leaning who want the "market" to govern itself should embrace the range of groups that bring pressure to bear on issues that affect the public welfare. Here's the way I think the three main US political theories view the government-business relationship: Right: Government should do whatever it can to promote business and increase its profitablity. Left: Government should act as a buffer between the people and business to provide a balance between profit and public interest. Libertarian: Government should have nothing to do with business whatsoever, either negative or positive. Anyway, I know I'm only fanning the fire on a topic that has nothing to do with climbing and more properly belongs on the political science 101 message board. Perhaps the only hope for ending this thread is having the moderators finally crack and lock it up.

quote: Originally posted by Matt: I liken meeting climbing partners on cc.com to online dating[/QB]Don't get Erik started on dating stories....

The real question is how many Rope Gun Hookers are out there besides Erik and Icegirl. That appears to be a lovingly applied monniker rather than mere numbers tomfoolery.

As a city to live in, I'd take Portland over Seattle any time, but I think overall the rock is better in Washington, and I know the North Cascades beat most of what the range has to offer in Oregon. I lived in Tucson for a couple years, and I know you will have a little adjusting to do moving up here, and wherever you locate up here you won't have the same level of rockclimbing access that you're used to. And frankly, at least on the west side of the Cascades, the bouldering flat out sucks.