Off_White

Naw, just look around the website, there are plenty of used ones that you can recycle and climb right back on top of. Yes, for me too, I think the sport climbs I've done are not the most memorable routes, and while its nice to get a route you've been working, it does feel a little like just that: work. The climbs that wind my spring the tightest seem to be long and trad, but I appreciate the smorgasbord.

What are you referring to as Stairway to Heaven on J-berg? Do you mean the lower extension of that couloir you rap into on NE Rib? I've always looked at that line, I thought of it as Looking Down The Barrel of a Dream. I think good alpine ice is sort of hard to find in the Cascades. I spent a few years trying to find the equivalent of those lovely Sierra couloirs, but never did. Thats not to say its not out there, I'm sure some here have found that grail now and then, but I suspect the lower elevations lead to warmer night time temps and just not enough of that freeze-thaw cycle that converts the white stuff into the blue. I suggest you make use of the stable weather and tick some good rock routes. Sorry, I have no current info for you, but I do second Mr. Layton's suggestion. [ 08-24-2002, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Off White ]

I dunno Michael, I've always found being the boss to be advantageous. Back in the dark ages (79 to 83) I used to have a shop sewing outdoor clothing, mostly pile and fleece. Scumbag Mountaineering was never a great living, but marketing trips to the Valley with a couple huge overstuffed duffles were always fun. I slowly drifted into construction, where I remain to this day, writing to you from Brand X world headquarters. You might consider being a carpenter, there is a significant demand these days: fewer strapping youth make their way into the field and the pool of experienced carpenters is steadily aging. The wages are okay for blue collar work, but the trick is finding a good employer who understands that work is not as important as life, and is amenable to being flexible. There is also the itinerant carpenter model, long a standard in climber employment: work awhile while living cheap, amass a cash stash, go on extended holiday, start again. A good carpenter can get work almost anywhere. However, you want to quickly move through the novice bumblie phase, because as Tommy Caldwell discovered, we are not starfish and those fingers won't grow back. Anyway, my apologies to all for posting on topic.

Hey Bobby, you've really got a thing for Skerik's sax wailings, don't you? The only time I've actually watched him at play was when he was with Sadhappy, which was pretty damn fun.

quote: Originally posted by plexus: Meethinks that jhameker likes runouts. C'mon don't you think the one bolt-per-pitch on Snake Dike is a little bit too much...it's like a friggn' bolt ladder !! Sport routes are kinda oxymoronic aren't they? Yes, thats the obvious guess, but if you throw in "anything at Red Rocks" and Peshastin, then runout slab climbing doesn't fit as a pattern. I haven't done Snake Dike or anything on the upper apron, but I have done some one bolt pitches, and no matter the grade, I've never exactly sneered at the bolt when I found it. As for oxymoronic, c'mon, climbing is a vast array of things. It runs from some V-dreadful boulder problem to Snake Dike to South Seas to Nemesis to DNB of Bear to the DC Route on Rainier: there's plenty of room in that spectrum for a little athletically challenging low risk rock gymnastics. Do the hard ice folks sneer at rock climbers because their medium will actually take protection that will hold a fall? As Lito Tejada-Flores termed it, its all the Games Climbers Play, and there are an abundance of games, and really, games is all they are. Thankfully we don't all embrace the same things, because that would be boring as all hell. Sneering at someone else's fun is just another game, and a very old one at that. PS: Plexus, I don't mean to make it sound like I'm targeting you, your humorous query just made me look around for a soapbox.

Ryland, seems like there was a good thread on this in recent history, Dru had some good beta and he and Lowell discussed the virtues of which way to go when you get to the muck. Tell us stories when you get back.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Whale meat is full of PCbs and dioxins. Thats why the Makah had to stop hunting the gray whales. are you suggesting we poison the poor? C'mon, sing along with the Dead Kennedys "Kill Kill Kill Kill Kill The Poor!"

It's been years since I've done it, but it was a piece of cake. Used that as an approach to Liberty Ridge, since I'm a big fan of starting as high as you can. The trip was a wash after spending two days camped in a 10' visibility white out on the lower Curtis (never even got a glimpse of the Carbon Glacier), but the approach was nice. Don't miss the custom rock bench on Second Burroughs.

Is that your writing, Tricky? If so, have you ever considered getting a job with The Onion? You've got the style nailed pretty well.

quote: Originally posted by jhamaker: Pashastin Pinnacles after the exfoliated sand has been cleaned off by other climbers. Anything at Red Rocks. Friction slabs like the Upper Apron rts at Squamish. Snake Dike in the valley. See a pattern here? Sorry, I don't see the pattern. Its not just a listing of runout trad routes, though Question of Balance and Snake Dike would fit that description. Red Rocks has a ton of sport routes, even up in the canyons. Peshastin? I recall many of those routes having perfectly adequate protection, but its not quite the place to be anyone's favorite. They're not the same kind of rock, they're not in the same state, they're not even all face climbs. As for my choices... Aerial at Snowshed Wall in Donner Summit because I like aretes. Colossus at City of Rocks because my trad upbringing makes me enjoy it most when I flash something, and it was both interesting and easy enough. Green Dragon on the Apron in the Valley because I just love that slab, and it was my first 5.11 lead. The Manly Wham in Tenino because I know it so well that in the middle of the night when I wake up and can't sleep, I can climb the route in my mind and I always nod out before the top (though I've never fallen asleep on the climb)

Greg H, are you in Tucson as we speak? It must have been an awful summer with Mt Lemmon closed down. I lived there for a couple years in the 80's, but was glad to move back up to the NW after my sweetie finished grad school. Still, every February or so, I get a little twitch and remember the great climbing down there. I may have to miss this Tacoma go round, the 27th is my anniversary, and I expect to be otherwise occupied...

quote: Originally posted by not a climber: Aren't the parties just a reflection of their constituents and ultimately the average American? I suspect the average American has just become more average and so the parties have drifted closer together. Would a third part of any size really offer anything different? If there is no demand, then there will be no supply. For better or worse, there is less polarization in public opinion. I want my, I want my, I want my MTV. I think the parties are just becoming a closer reflection of their funding sources, not their constituents. While Mtn Goat is unmoved by voter apathy, I'm a fan of a vigorous democracy. I don't think there is any less polarization of the citizenry, just look at the range of opinions on this board.

DFA, most of the climbs PP mentioned are technical crack masterpieces in Yosemite that demand strength, grace, power management, and excellent gear placement skills. I'm assuming that Peter, like myself, can lead bolted face climbs several grades harder than crack routes. This is true for many people I know, but certainly not all: take Erik for example. I don't know much in the way of 5.13 climbers, so I don't know if that trend exists at the level, but I suspect it does. Bolted sport routes can be really fun, but I think for most climbers on the planet, hard crack climbs involve a significant fear component (I know, different thread) that sport climbing consciously tries to eliminate from the equation.

Oh Peter, its Mothra's Pit Crew! I knew all those sunday matinees were time well spent. Too bad you don't have a sound file attached too...

Money tilts the playing field. This is how we've wound up with the simplest and stupidest individual in the highest elected office. Yeah yeah, I know, its not nice to laugh at the handicapped, but did you hear that guy try and talk about forest protection? I dunno, maybe he was only drunk... Anyway, we don't live in a meritocracy that rewards intelligence, virtue, and ideals with money, so why should money decide who has influence? Campaign donations buy access, pure and simple. If you doubt it, try it on a smaller local level. Give $2000 to someone running for Seattle City Council, and see just how seriously someone is willing to listen to you and advocate for concerns. As republicrats and demicans come to resemble each other more and more, I think the real disease is the two party system that really offers no viable choice, so people just don't care. If we had proportional representation, where the Greens might hold 5% of the seats, the Libertarians with 4%, Socialists with 2%, and the Trad Climbers 1%, you'd have a political map that would grant more influence to a wider range of viewpoints, and lead to more compromise and fluctutating alliances, and we all might find a party that actually represents what we think. Mnt Goat, I'm sure Bush and his trade tariffs must chap your Cato-Institute ass, and I know for damn sure that Clinton and his faux environmentalism pissed me off no end. Isn't everyone here, on every side, tired of making candidate choices based on a lesser of two evils, however you define evil? At this early point in my candidacy, a $2000 donation will definitely gain you some access if I win. (Hey, page top to boot. With omens like that, the Wiccans are sure to back me...) [ 08-22-2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Off White ]

HA Hah heh hmmm *sigh* [ 08-22-2002, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Off White ]

Make the trek down to Spanaway to revel in the splendor that is Spire Rock. It's also a great opportunity to practice your boot-axe belay technique using the nifty faux axes embedded in the top, and that spinning chockstone is pure genius! Truth be told, there just isn't much in the way of bouldering on the Westside of the Cascades that I'm aware of. Best I've seen is the big boulders up at Lake Cushman in the Olympics that get exposed in February when the lake is drawn down to provide power. Storing your boulders under water tends to prevent moss growth. I grew up and learned to climb in San Diego, and the one thing I miss about the place is the bouldering.

Okay, I give up: who's Dr. K? As far as being in tow on the Crucifix or Geek Towers, I'd go with whoever gives better tension

ummm.... thanks Dwayner, that was special.

Did I miss some tragedy? I didn't think there was anything "was" about deKlerk.

I kind of agree GregW, but for different reasons. I think the current campaign finance reform sucks because its so full of loopholes as to be useless. I don't think the American democratic ideal is really "one dollar, one vote," but that's what we've got. Groups like the NRA and Sierra Club are just attempts to pool the individual dollars to make a voice that gets listened to. I agree its a bad thing when incumbents get greased rails to reelection, I wish more politicians had to justify their actions and take a stand, not do the mealy mouthed "what do you want me to say?" public relations dance they mostly do. Anyway, its mostly useless spray to bitch about it on this site, time to do another round of pesky letters to my representatives, eh? Cheers

I've only had limited experience with digital cameras, but I've found they kind of suck for action photos, the delay between pushing the button and getting the picture is just too long and unpredictable.

Well, maybe I need to take another look, because that overhanging cobble stuff looked scary to me and i just assumed it was similar to the funky-rock-awesome-climbing choss one sees pictures of from Utah. Other parts had a Smith-like welded tuff look. I don't think of either of those motifs as ripe for ground up new routes, but it seems jhamaker speaks from experience, and its interesting to hear that the rock is solid. Relax, I'm not advocating bolting any natural pro routes, I'm just lazy and enjoy having route beta on what I'm getting into.

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: The 'Bone ain't Petey Puget. I know this to be so. Nope, he ain't. Peter Puget ain't Allison either. I've seen her!!!! VaVaVaVOOOMMM!!!!!! Even if she is a "secret pub club" organizing wench enamored of that blight on elliot bay, eh?

Yer gonna haveta come out of the closet if you wanna get laid, Petey. (I mean the secret identity closet) [ 08-21-2002, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Off White ]