Greg_W

Which is why most people don't believe that Canada is an actual country. Just kidding, thanks for the information. What about the waiting lists, though? I like preventative health care, but you cannot compel people to live healthy if they don't want to. I know some insurance companies offer incentives for healthy living or keeping dr. visits to a minimum, etc.

"...Pursuit of Happiness" Some just pursue it more vigorously. Re-distribution of wealth is stealing. The whole math/UN thing was to point out that this stuff is in math books. What does it have to do with math? Sure learn it in civics, but not math. We disagree, obviously; you want government to solve all the problems but you complain about loss of liberties and rights. You are advocating a larger government. A larger government will become more invasive into our personal lives. What happened to people who didn't have jobs before all these programs went into affect? They worked any job they could; families helped each other. GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ANSWER.

Dru, What does this system cost in terms of tax burden? What about the heinous waiting that I've heard of? Like people having to wait 9 months for by-pass surgery and other things. These procedures are readily available in the US; immediately. What about the income caps that the government puts on physicians? This doesn't sound too good from a care, or liberty, standpoint. I really do want to know from someone firsthand; I hear a lot of general info and propaganda.

Universal healthcare a boon to liberty? Is that true of those that are being taxed to death to pay for it? You can't tell me that a program run by the government is going to do anyone any good or be cost-effective. Give the people a tit to suck on and you will have complete control. The more the government controls of the daily lives of its citizens, the more control it will have over how people vote. State-run schools - This is how the USSR indoctrinated generation after generation of good party members. What does human rights and the United Nations have to do with teaching kids math? These things are in math books. Teaching kids values and self-esteem and other bullshit is not what schools are for. Stick to the three 'R's and stop asking Suzy if her daddy has guns. Why are there advertisements encouraging people to come and sign up for food stamps? Why should we be encouraging this? Shouldn't we be saying get a job and support your family? I understand that families fall on hard times and there are programs to help, but we shouldn't be out beating the brush signing people up. They are doing this to protect their budget line item in Congress. Apparently the number of families on the dole are going down, but these bureaucracies are trying to protect their little kingdoms. Gun control, Campaign Finance Reform (abridgement of the 1st Amendment), National ID cards, invasive questions during Census polls, and I can't think of any more right now but there are some...

I cannot speak on the fine points of the Dept. of Homeland Security, so I will not respond. I will say, however, that if layers of management and bureaucracy can be eliminated and processes streamlined (as happens in the private sector on a daily basis), I can see some benefit. I will reserve judgement until I can read more. As far as prisoners being held w/o "due process", I believe that ALL law enforcement agencies have 24 hours, or something like it, to bring charges. That has been the law of the land for quite awhile. Non-citizens do not enjoy this right and are thus excluded from this protection. As you read, I said that "ALL in government" are actively involved in increasing the size of government. The Strom Thurmonds, Ted Kennedys, etc. have become used to the elixir of power and will not reliquish it. Your question on "public information" and Dick Cheney is puzzling. I do know that just because minutes were taken in a meeting doesn't make them "public information". Also, your comment about "transparency in government" is puzzling in that there is no law on the books that requires this. Even the FOIA is restricted by National Security concerns, and I think that this is valid. Greg W

Don't you see that this is happening already? Gun control, speech control, "speech codes" at major universities, the inculcation of our children that government is the answer, constant reinforcement that taking government handouts is a good thing, and on, and on, and on...Our freedoms are being constantly eroded by ALL in government in the name of being "nice", "helping out", and outright desire for "social control." What do you think universal healthcare is, but another way to restrict freedom and control the populace. More taxes equals less freedom. Back to Ryland's comments on George W., I'm not completely happy with the job he's doing, but then, we have differing political views. He was the best candidate in the field (IMO), especially in light of 9/11, Afghanistan, and Saddam. Greg W

Hi j_b, got your tail out from between your legs? I agree that climbing becomes a passion that people center their lives around in varying degrees.

Wow, I am a "type." Huh, go figure. Caveman is right; let's have this discussion when I actually show up at a Pub Club. How 'bout we do a north Seattle/Everett or Eastside Pub Club after the first of the year? We can chat then.

AMEN. HALLELUJAH. PRAISE GUINNESS!!

Sounds spicy!!! Cool

Once again, this board has prompted me to crack open the Beckey guide and go, "shit that looks like a great climb." Have to add one or both to the list.

It might mellow her out, but she'd need some antibiotic ointment after!!!

Mike - Thanks for your past and future service to protect the rights of the liberal, socialist-wannabe, wet noodle, appeaser, handwringer, poseur American citizens.

Al Qaeda wants Cave Rock closed!!!! WAR WAR WAR!!!!

Really? Why didn't the previous administration do shit about terrorism in that region when they had the intel? 'Cause they believe in the hand-wringing appeasing Chamberlain-esque style of diplomacy.

"Moving weapons around"??? No, Iain, it's called SELLING weapons to a nation that has known terrorist ties. It wasn't the announcement of an "Axis of Evil", but the identification of the relationship that prompted the action.

"You know the words from the Bible: 'Build not on sand, but on rock....' Communist leaders respect only firmness...and laugh at persons who give in to them." --Alexander Solzhenitsyn born this day in 1918. Saw this tidbit today. I think it is poignant that this advice comes at a time when we are dealing with North Korea. Also, sounds like good advice for dealing with other Communist countries in the world.

Thanks for the link, Sisu. I like the "missiles-R-us" moniker. How can the "talk-talk-talk" advocates respond now? North Korea is ACTING, how can we sit there and just TALK?

Post-of-the-Day, in my book. Fucking French.

Here, here. Anybody have some sick alpine goals for the winter?

No locks, sorry.

Watch the line you're treading DFA. No, Iain, nothing to tell; just a normal, hetersexual, suburban dork.

Talking about gay shit is gay. I'm only into the chicas, just ask my wife.

People may not like me (I see I've dropped back to two stars), but it looks like Sexual Chocolate is winning, or losing depending on your view.