klenke

Skykilo, you reading this? A challenge for ya.

Colin, the alpine -? Colin, you need to provide split times and GPS coordinates and provide names of all your stopwatch operators.

The beta overloader has put up a verbose Improbable Traverse Route page on summitpost. Click this here string of words.

Here I come to save the daaaaay... I'm not bitter, I'm not apathetic. I just don't care.

Some data for you: Liberal commentary in this thread outnumbers NeoCon commentary by about 10 to 1. A few posts are on the fence or say nothing at all (like this one). Debunk the other viewpoint! Debunk the other viewpoint! It doesn't fit my perceptions! It doesn't fit! Can't be true! Can't be!

Yeah, that too.

I too hate it when people don't provide any info. But then I'm verbose by default.

Yeah, free-solo; thanks. Lexdysia.

Dru, sometimes there is no Class 3 alternative way around the Class 4, which is usually a short step but not always. But yes, you are also right about Class 4 being a terrain most should be able to free-climb. However, the foregoing statement is subjective: easier to say for those more experienced, harder to fathom for newbies. As mattp says, you can be belayed across it to mitigate a long (potentially) fatal fall. A chossy rock stance could come loose and send you down. Probably more people die on Class 4 than Class 5 every year. And let's face it, often the loosest most dangerous rock out there is found on Class 4 terrain. It's usually Class 4 because of the many stances created by loose-lying material. Class 5 is apt to be more clean (but not always, since I know you like nitpicking on details to be....well...you). You can self-belay on any kind of terrain, be it flat Class 1 or vertical Class 5. The process is the same either way though it can be cumbersome to do on flat terrain. For sure anyone learning how to do it should do so on benign Class 2/3 terrain where a mistake won't get you hurt. Then once you've figured out how to do it take it to the real thing. It would be kind of like crevasse rescue practice. You can practice it in a grass field. It's not the real thing but it's still practicing and not dangerous.

Excellent! Finally a NW Couloir TR with a picture of what it looks like from a distance. At least the first TR I've seen with a picture of it. Now I know what to look for when I'm peakbagging somewhere NW of Eldorado. I got a kick out of your use of 'pull out' and 'stiff' in the same sentence here: A bit of groveling and I was able to pull out my other tool and get an easy stick above the chock in stiff neve.

The traverse over to Jack from Little Jack would suck if you didn't take the zigzag shortcut to the upper South Face:

An annotated view of the Improbable Traverse Route as we did it (others may have done it differently): Green = Class 3 Pink = Class 4 Blue = Class 5 Orange = belays LL = Lunch Ledge IT = Improbable Traverse HAR = High angle ramp V = 5.7 variation (for those looking for even more fun) The last pitch is Class 4/5. Red flag = summit. For short pitch to Lunch Ledge I changed my mind as to the difficulty of it. Having done it again with Sergio on Monday, I think it was low 5th Class, not 4th Class. Exposure is definitely there either way. Also, I'm now going to say the HAR is Class 4 in places. It is Class 3/4 all together. First third is nice slab; second third is rubbly; last third is duffy thus slick for rock shoes.

What are polotics, Keith? Are they facial tics polo players get after many years of sniffing horses asses?

I don't know much about her other than she's ugly. Not as ugly as another attorney general I can think of, though. Clue: initials JR.

Yeah, Liarnel, chucK is about as anti-shrub as they come. He's just getting your goat. And now that he's got it, out comes the vaseline...

I had a similar experience as pzack when I delivered newspapers as a 13-year old. There was a german shephard along the route that used to bark vociferously at me behind a fence. Initially he'd scare the bejesus out of me but in time I grew used to him (i.e, prepared for his noisy onslaught). One day when I was nearing the fence along the road I prepped for his bark but there was nothing. I thought he might be in the backyard or inside the house. Well I got to even with the driveway and THERE HE IS OUTSIDE THE FENCE. He sees me and starts a runnin'. I pedal faster but it's no use. He's catching up. 40 yards...20 yards...10 yards... He runs up to my back left side and I'm rapidly looking forward & looking back not sure if he's going to bite my lower leg or not. I try and kick backwards with my left foot. It's actually hard to kick while riding a bike, or so I learned (this was a BMX bike). Anyway, while I'm looking forward to look where I'm going I kick backwards again. I feel my foot impact a very hard surface--his head. Dog yelps in pain for a second then stops. Dog never bothered me again. Oh sure he'd bark when he sensed someone coming but once he saw it was me he'd shut up. Fantastic!

Doesn't TG brew the stuff in NE Oregon? Enterprise, OR?

That could be true. Or you could just be maimed for life...but still capable of leading Class 3. Con: Cord can untie; wire obviously can't. Mine are tied with fisherman's knots. After tying them it is a good idea to hang on them or load them (but not too much) so as to tightened the knot up.

Mine are on perlon-like cord (at least the mid-to-large size ones; smaller ones are on wires). Sling (cord) pros and cons: Pro: easier to replace the cord if it breaks. Can do it yourself Pro: more flexible for bending around rock nubbins, etc. Con: due to weight of hex, it can flop around too much while you're desperately trying to place it. If you've only got one hand available to do so, it can be cumbersome to slot it correctly Con: cord might not last as long as wire but I'm not for certain this is the case

What are you guys talking about? The whole thing was faked on a soundstage in a backlot of Paramount Pictures. Vehicle was made of styrofoam and tinfoil. "Space" was a very large black curtain. Pilot was a showroom dummy. Geez, you guyzez ah so gullybull.

Yeah that dog 'turned a trick' all right. And no illicit fee for the deed either.

Somewhere in Bucharest there's a chicken on the other side of the road laughing his feathered ass off.

Or did you mean pecker order?

Joke: why did the penis cross the road? You fill in the punchline...

And so speaks up another pro-Kerry liberal....ho hum...