bobinc

Yeah -- they have a bike and stairmonster. It's really true what Courtenay says; overall conditioning helps out a great deal in recovery time of specific injuries. You have to be careful, of course, but assuming you are, it will pay off in the long run with the injury.

Garfield isn't a bad rec, Juan, but are ya going by yourself? It gets exposed on the upper part, although you can make it less so by choosing the brush to the right. There's also some exposure on the traverse down low. It's not as obscure to find your way once up on the route, since someone seems to have made it their project to brush it out once a year. More confusing is the lower part. Thompson is another one; that's a long hike in but the W Ridge is kinda fun. Some mid-5th here and there (like Forbidden) but mostly 4th class.

Outstanding thread. Jonathan -- how much does hard alcohol figure into your enjoyment of ramen? There must be a sympathetic relationship there. That is, if you have sufficient Wild Turkey, you might consume an entire $1 worth of ramen (perhaps ten noodle bundles and flavor packets, if you shop where the LG shops). Just a thought. I've noticed this sort of calculus at work in my own forays into ramen cuisine.

Right on, Chuck! Can't believe REI didn't make all the spaces big enough for the Ford Explorers all of the sensitive environmentalists seem to drive these days.

This is good stuff, Erik. You are right that there is a "bottom line" to all of this and that is presumably where both the customer gets good enough service/information that they leave happy and the store stays in business. I guess part of my feelings on this have to do with my own experiences at FF over the past 10 years or so. I'd say the staff is above average; most people really know their stuff, they keep obscure parts lying around in the back room, they stock high quality gear, etc. I haven't known any of them as friends for a long time, but I don't get the cold shoulder when I go in (and I don't look like some sort of hardcore climber/skiier). I think I ask as many questions as the next prospective buyer, and I haven't felt as though I was being ridiculed for doing so. And my last comment stands: the retail sales floor isn't the right place to look for love.

I've heard similar stories from other folks; most of those who have had bad experiences seem to be in the less experienced camp. This is a hard place to be, since how do you get out if those in the know won't share their knowledge? On the other hand, the reason FF and other places of their ilk are so useful is that most of the people there actually know most of what they're talking about and this saves time for those who have some clue what they're looking for. Contrast this with the Evil Empire across the street: occasionally you might find someone with some idea of what's going on, but the typical interaction with staff is only good for comic relief. My advice is to take advantage of the knowledge of the salespeople who are in the know, call them on shit when they seem to be giving you 'tude, and look for self-validation in places other than retail shops.

Wish I could but I have different pain planned: wisdom teeth out that day. Climbed Dreamer last yr on Sept 11. Got out there early so didn't know the full news until we returned...

All that should be added (to make it totally Euro) is that a minimum number of cigarettes must be smoked during the assault.

A (belated) second to that. I went to their warehouse recently as I was in the area and the service and price (since they treated me like an on-line customer) were outstanding!

I've only done the NW FAce of the N Ridge, which does require the rappel onto the Forbidden Glacier. My impression on the regular route is that the rappel is not required. I seem to recall some amt of confusion in the guide on this issue, as though the route descriptions for both routes were muddled together. Juan, what do you think?

For over 20 years, the level of knowledge/service of the average REI employee has consistently degraded as they have taken the Costco approach to promoting and selling outdoor gear. That being said, it is always possible to find helpful, knowledgeable people there, especially in the repair dept. Too bad there is so much confusion one must normally wade through to get something simple done. That is why, for the most part, many of us have stopped going there (for anything other than very basic gear such as Lexan water bottles, topo maps, etc.)

Oops -- bad geography. I always seem to mix up the N and S Santiam. Thanks for the backup, Iain. We climbed Hen and Chicken Rocks years ago and friends have done the Turkey Monster (which is much more of an undertaking). Pretty good rock, for the most part. Good, cheap camping at Fernview Campground near there; nice spots to hang at near the river after a day on the crags.

They aren't peaks, but some of the spires in The Menagerie (near North Santiam River, east of Sweet Home) are fun and get you up to some good views. Don't know if they are described in detail anywhere other than Nick Dodge's old (early 70s) Climbing Guide to Oregon. William Sullivan's Guide to Wild Areas of Oregon has some mention of them plus discusses non-volcano peaks elsewhere in the state (mostly NE Oregon -- Blues/Wallowas/Eagle Cap).

Years ago at Smith, as we were walking back from a route, someone saw our gear and asked, excitedly, "Are you guys rappelling? (and then, in a smaller, less excited voice) ... or just climbing?" Recently Pub Club exchange (I was told). Someone asked Beckey his opinion of the biggest remaining problem in the Cascades. Without hesitation, he enthusiastically answered, "The Forest Service."

Did this about ten years ago in early April and it rained/snowed much of the time. Made the final climb up the gully more sporting! Seem to recall two sections of steep hiking through trees with a ridge connection in between. These get you up to a notch then a small bowl below the gully that takes you up near the summit. This would be a good place to camp; not sure on water, however. The overall elevation of the thing isn't great, so it's unlikely much snow is left in the gully. You may have to hedge bets and carry more water than you would like. Distance/time to the camp isn't extreme (3-4 hrs?) so this shouldn't be too bad.

A really fun one (also described in the Dodge book) is the Turkey Monster, down by Santiam Pass. Friends of mine in high school climbed it around the same time we climbed Monkey Face. They reported finding tent pegs hammered into some of the aid portions!

Let's see if I can finish this without running afoul of the many "features" of this site... Shuksan -- Fisher Chimneys (Hell's Hwy was interesting because there was a big crevasse open that year requiring us to chop steps up the other side with long axes (no crampons); went with a beginner and we had a great time; White Salmon Glacier -- outstanding skiing all the way from the summit plateau in mid-July (big snow year) Liberty Bell Beckey Route (in a June snowstorm with novice climbers; no one got too worried and the snow made it gorgeous) North Early Winter Spire NW Corner -- got a bit freaked leading the layback pitch but got through it; again impressed by partner's lead of the OW above Middle Cathedral, Central Pillar of Frenzy -- outstanding variety, fun jams, and we chatted with one of the Huber brothers on the descent

Good thread, obviously. Let's see... JTree: routes on Lost Horse Wall -- just long enough to get off the ground a ways and the moves are generally lots of fun Bird of Fire/Exorcist/Diamond Dogs -- didn't lead 'em but that made me even more impressed with my partner! Forbidden (NW Face of N Ridge) -- we were underprepared but ran into people with enough ice pro and had a great time in perfect weather (except for descent with falling-apart boots)

Good thread, obviously. Let's see... JTree: routes on Lost Horse Wall -- just long enough to get off the ground a ways and the moves are generally lots of fun Bird of Fire/Exorcist/Diamond Dogs -- didn't lead 'em but that made me even more impressed with my partner! Forbidden (NW Face of N Ridge) -- we were underprepared but ran into people with enough ice pro and had a great time in perfect weather (except for descent with falling-apart boots)

I, too, like to travel fast at times and enjoy seeing more terrain and perhaps bagging extra peaks with a lighter load to carry. I've speculated that, in fact, Olympus could be done in a day or thereabouts. But when you add in the amount of time it takes to drive there and back, the variety of ecologicial climes encountered to/fro, the uniqueness of the place, etc etc, it just seems ridiculous to rush it. I must say, in general, that most of the climbers I encounter around here seem to have mostly athletic accomplishments in mind when they head out, rather than enjoying all the things the mountains have to offer. I'm up for a track meet now and then but find I am increasingly more interested in a longer look at the geology, plants, and related elements of the subalpine and alpine.

Washouts and brush are preservers of wilderness values.

I am not surprised it has been done, but that doesn't address the question of whether it SHOULD be done this way. The area has so much to offer other than an athletic challenge that it is almost sacrilegious to approach Olympus this way. But perhaps some of you have done the climb a number of times already and are looking for a new challenge.

I'm pretty much "old school" on the cell phone thing but in the one time that I needed one (just to report an overdue return, not to call in air support), it would have prevented so much upheaval that I have no reservation in considering throwing it in on certain climbs. That being said, when you only have yourself and your partners to rely on in difficult conditions, it's amazing what resources you find within the group.

You can't be serious. If you are, why?

Hey, Matt: After this, the big walls in the Valley will seem ever more forgiving. Don't beat yourself up too much over this. The weather can change awfully fast and then it's hard to know what is best to do. I have wished for a cell phone to notify loved ones of my situation before (on Johannesburg) and even though it is odd how you could only get 911, the result was a relatively quick resolution. Bob