bobinc

But Jim, what about all those terrorists lurking behind every sand dune? We must either convert them to our way of thinking or eliminate them, and either path is very, very expensive. For a country with such wealth, we are extremely pound-foolish.

Exactly. I just have to shake my head when I hear people argue along the lines of, "well, now that my kids are out of school, I always vote no on the tax levies." If that's the kind of society you want to have, go ahead and vote no, but also remember, you get what you pay for. Same goes for health care. Apparently, as a society, we have decided we are comfortable with a trade-off whereby the medical establishment makes a very comfortable living but we have somewhere around 100 million or more people who are either uninsured or underinsured. That's living in America, circa 2002. Yes, most of the European societies have "high taxes," but that money goes to fund things that I would think civilized countries would want: single payer health care, free university, and so on. Go ahead and take the libertarian track if you like, but be prepared to argue that it's okay to have a high infant mortality rate, high functional illiteracy rate, etc.

Sad, but true. The flat tab rate did away with one of the few progressive fees we had in this state. It still amazes me how people don't get this. But even more amazing is how they blame the feds for taxes being too high when the real cause is right under their nose: Washington is one of the most regressive tax states in the US.

If the rich could hire the poor to die for them, the poor could make a pretty good living.

Spent 4+ days at Red Rocks and had a blast. One item of interest is that 2 bolt anchors have been added to the first four pitches of Ginger Cracks, so it is possible to rappel the route, if needed. However, the descent down Power Failure is superior, given it is steeper and has many fewer features. I ended up re-climbing the crux of GC to unstick the rope... (But 2 bolts have been added to the crux, too, so...) Crimson Chrysalis is more crowded then ever. We saw 14 people on it the day we climbed Geronimo and there were at least a dozen on it the day we climbed GC. Not to say it isn't worth doing, but if you like to climb to get away from crowds, this isn't your route. Also enjoyed several routes in the Lotta Balls area. Lotta Balls is a blast and there is a relatively new 5.8 to its left that heads up nubbins a shallow corner. Enjoyed Rabbit's Foot, too, which requires a couple of fun moves to pull an overhang. Alcohol Wall (10ish face and thin crack climbing) looks inviting, but we ran out of time (just as we felt to be ready for something a bit more challenging, of course).

I like Forrest's plan but use factory-second cotton long sleeve shirts (usually abt $10) because cotton feels better in hot weather. These shirts are also good on the glacier since you can roll up sleeves, undo buttons, etc as the day warms up. Also amazes me how people pay $30 or $40 for sunhats with the "cancer curtain" when you can get the same effect with a gimme baseball cap from the paint store and a bandanna.

Matt -- are you doing any of these sessions?

Yeah, Cinderella area is very confusing. However, there was a good thread in here last spring, I think, that seemed to have good beta. Denis98 was the source.

Well said. The main question at hand should be, "what kind of society do we want to live in," regardless of our position in that society. Just because I am relatively well off does not mean I stop caring for everyone else's rights and standard of living. If we take ourselves and others seriously, we cannot assume our actions have no effect on others.

Perhaps a good public works project in Oregon would be to glue the entire contents of Smith Rock State Park together so they could be enjoyed in perpetuity by both climbers and sight-seers alike. (Having said this, though, I think all assembled would agree it would be much cheaper to have a crew of illegal aliens do the work.)

Yes, I think Balance of Power was TOO civil. I guess it's back to insulting each other. Or perhaps we might actually want to talk about climbing....

The Invisible Hand will take care of everything, including directing traffic. (Actually, once we reach terminal gridlock, this will no longer be necessary.)

Uh -oh, we need a decision! I don't think Greg or Trask will disappoint, however. I'm eager to see how they rule on this.

DFA and Dru: you are adding too much complexity to this "debate." The beauty of the Republican "platform" is that it only has one or two planks (lower taxes, save the unborn/kill the bad buys) so it's always easy to look between one's feet and be reassured...

Cable and a car do not constitute health care or affordable housing (unless you have an Excursion, perhaps). It's always possible to find someone who is milking the system, but a more important question is, what kind of society do we want to have? If we are comfortable with having 100 million people under or uninsured for health coverage, then that's fine. If we believe this is unacceptable, we should take steps to fix the problem. There is always a way to pay for things that we deem important enough, whether it is a personal decision or a public one.

Hey, Mr Goat: is it okay if we stow several thousand of these cardboard boxes of spent control rods in your backyard?

Make sure you've got a Red Bull on ice for him when he walks in the door.

The gun control "debate" is pretty simple in many peoples' minds. If their idea of "control" never got beyond the "gun control is 2 hands" phase, they don't want to hear about the relationship between gun availabilty and violent crime, etc. etc. Too many pesky details. Those disgruntled postal workers aren't MY problem. Same goes for gold star Republicans: they only have a few overarching "principles": lower taxes, save the unborn, and kill the guilty. Don't bother me with any more details. How nice to have such a simple view of the world when you only have two colors in your box of crayons.

I'm sure Yakima will sell you such a rack for the low, low price of $99.99.

It's his Halloween costume. That is, he is a distorted caricature of his former self until midnight.

You're not the "gun nut" we're worried about. (Although there do seem to be quite a few "regrettable accidents" where someone didn't know the gun was loaded, etc. etc.) And as far as the MidFork road goes.... one of the best reasons for closing it is the activities of "gun nuts" who like to celebrate their time in the great outdoors by squeezing off multiple rounds.

Good one. The shorter version I heard was: 1) take your paycheck home 2) do your chores 3) keep a tight butt

... embrace your inner donut

Ruthless competition from KK has driven the last 2 Dunkin' Donuts out of business in WA. They have remained strong elsewhere, however. Muffy -- you are lucky to live near the Keystone.

How about that hook-rappel? Seemed sketchy until we did it multiple times on Bonanza. Sure saves on rope weight, but make sure you've got a fresh rubber band.