bobinc

For visual impact and remoteness (but not routes), it's hard to ignore the Henry Mtns in S. Utah.

I suggest we rent an RV which holds a keg and hire a driver and have the pub club at various points within a 60 mile radius of the Space Needle. There will also be a single malt tasting; bring your favorite bottle.

Glen -- take the tram up and do the Cornice run. Nothing like it!

Yeah -- I went to college near there. We used to go up and wander around in the B'cones and try to figure out which one was the oldest tree. Apparently, there was an older one in W Nevada that got destroyed some years back by dendrochronologists. They got their coring tool stuck in a tree and decided to cut it out with a chain saw. This ended up killing the tree. When they did a ring analysis, they found out the tree was over 5k yrs old! Oops.

Funny sidenote: more than a year after he started the store, I happened to ask Jim if he realized what the abbreviation would be. Totally oblivious.

Mattp, those are excellent all-around rules, whether in a bar or on a river trip. Number 4, in particular, is outstanding.

Great -- thanks, W. I think the next time down we will head over there. I assume it's not as confusing to find it as Room to Shroom (?)

Has anyone done stuff at Bighorn Mating Grotto? (I'm already scheming for next December.) I've never been out there, but someone I talked to gave it high marks for climbs in the 10 range. Vogel gives Caught Inside on a Big Set (10b?) lotsa stars but I read someone's account who had done it and was underwhelmed.

Good idea for a thread. NW Face of N Ridge on Forbidden has a lot to offer: scenery, fun climbing, and variety. Eldorado, just because of the view, the flowers way up high, and the summit ridge. Mt Anderson (Olmypics): long approach but the area around the pass and the climb are both outstanding. St Helens is always fun on skis.

Remember, it's just like the IRS says: AVOID, not EVADE.

Another good one that is well-protected (fixed) is Loose Lady (Houser Buttress near Real Hidden Valley). Excellent 5.9+ face climbing and a little longer than many one pitchers at Josh.

I grew up in the Columbia Gorge and remember a lot of bad experiences trying to communicate over gusty wind. When I got into spelunking, I learned some good, simple vocal signals that worked most of the time. But Mattp's system sounds even better. I used to make fun of the radio thing but then used them once on a longer multipitch and now see their place. I am wary of too many gadgets but on a climb where there were many sources of anxiety, the ability to communicate easily made the experience more pleasant.

Dru -- what was the Grit Roof like? We climbed on the other side of that formation one day and looked at the Roof on the way out.

Really depends on the snow pack. It's much safer once the lower approach gully has slid out and solidified, and if the upper gully is soft, it's a world class postholing experience. The upper gully is an excellent glissade once settled. Also, if you haven't been up there before, it's easy to get confused getting off the trail and transitioning to the lower gully.

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence." -- Napolean Bonaparte

Trivia note on the Uriostes: at the last belay on Prince of Darkness, some of the original hangers are there, each imprinted with the JU (Jorge Urioste) stamp. It's amazing how many routes they put up!

Trivia note on the Uriostes: at the last belay on Prince of Darkness, some of the original hangers are there, each imprinted with the JU (Jorge Urioste) stamp. It's amazing how many routes they put up!

One way to add your voice to an existing campaing on this issue is to contact Utah Open Lands and join their campaign. They have been quite successful in protecting some crucial land parcels in Utah over the last ten years. Here's their site: utahopenlands.org

There are no technical difficulties. It's more a matter of your conditioning and performance at altitude. Assuming those are in good order, you should be able to make it up and down in a long day. And yes -- take skis.

Oops -- forgot about anchors (for some reason). Dru is right! You do need some of the bigger stuff for anchors and for some of the classic OWs, too, if that is to your liking.

Most pitches are pretty short -- <= 100'. A double set of cams through #3 plus some small/medium wires would get you through most stuff. If you're light on cams, you can make good use of hexes on most routes. If you just concentrate on sport routes, you can of course get by with even less, but since there are so many good cracks, I'd advise taking a real rack.

The Vogel guide is the bible (and there is now a shorter "Select" version) but there are others that may have advantages. (Other would have better info on that than I do.) There are 5000+ routes so it's hard to know where to start. I've only been on 50 or so but here are some ideas: Echo Rock and environs: very popular since close to the HV Campground. Home to lots of classics such as Heart and Sole, Pope's Crack, etc. Hall of Horrors: classic cracks (Exorcist, Diamond Dogs) and some good face climbing; moderately crowded. Real Hidden Valley: all sorts of moderate cracks; again, close to the road and can be crowded. Loose Lady (9+ faceclimb) on nearby Hauser Buttress is a blast. Wonderland: easy to get lost out there but less crowded because of the walk. I've only done some of the moderate routes (Room to Shroom, Mental Physics) but routes such as Figures on a Landscape and stuff at the Bighorn Mating Grotto sound outstanding. Lost Horse Wall: longer routes than most at Josh and they protect well. Dappled Mare is fun, as is Bird on a Wire. Never crowded when I've been there but that was in December (but during the Xmas break, so...) If you climb at a high level (10b and up), a whole lot more climbs are open to you, but better climbers than I will have to describe those offerings.

Wow, that does sound like a brutal few days. Too bad. There's no way your next trip could have that much pain. For what it's worth, we found a way to avoid crowds on Prince of Darkness: climb it on December 27th. It helps to have no wind and relatively mild temps (high 40s by mid-afternoon). The rock is a block of ice, though, so we climbed fast and placed hand warmers under the laces in our shoes (plus the obligatory packet in the chalk bag).

Four studded tires in good condition plus rims that fit early '80s Toyota Corolla/Tercel. Not sure what other lug patterns these rims fit. Also have a virtually new Yakima ski rack for sale. (No towers or cross bar, though.) Willing to sell the whole lot for $100. Also have an '86 Honda Civic for sale. It runs great but the number 2 cylinder has a problem -- probably a bad wiping ring. If you are mechanically inclined, it may be an easy problem to solve. The body and interior are in good condition and the sound system is excellent. I've changed over to a newer truck and would sell this car for virtually nothing ($200 obo).

SmartWool is effective, even if it is kinda expensive. It is comfortable over a wide range of conditions and is easy to clean. It does tend to stretch out after repeated use and washings, but overall I prefer it over polypro, especially on the funk factor scale.