i also vote for the ice floe. it's not the warmest glove out there, but it rocks - excellent fit, great dexterity, good sensitivity. they are padded - no sore knuckles, have a nice microfleece lining, and are easy to get on and off when wet. no liners. i will often bring another pair of warm fleecy gloves to wear when the climbing's done. i've heard guys complain about how long they last, but mine are still in excellent condition after maybe 30 days on ice. i restrict their use to ice climbing. great gloves.