mattp

Mount Constance is approached via a very steep (short) trail from a low elevation river valley, the Dosewallips. In firm conditions, the standard route can be very easily climbed and a descent made all the way back to the car in a day though there is enough high exposure, and steep or avalanche-prone terrain to let you know that you've climbed a mountain. Mount Constance, the most prominent peak on the E. skyline of the Olympics, when viewed from many places in Kitsap County and the Seattle area, is the highest peak along Hood Canal. I have no idea about the condition of the road right now, but it can be a good winter objective and not very difficult.

Dwayner has it about right. I've done the N. Ridge a couple of times as a winter climb and it is way fun, not to hard, and a good choice for someone relatively new to mixed climbing.

The log has been cut away, though some unattended firewood does remain there. After three days with no rain, the rock at Darrington was dry and the temperatures very pleasant November 9.

Carpool from points in Seattle NW?

The Big Four picnic ground is on the Mountain Loop Highway, probably twenty five miles from Granite falls. The caves are reached by a trail, probably no more than a half mile and with a total elevation gain of no more than 300 feet, that has been under reconstruction for the last two years with the goal of making the entire thing wheelchair accessible. The ice caves are in the "Rucker's Glacier," argued to be the lowest glacier in the lower 48 but I believe it is not really a glacier but more accurately described as a permanent snow remnant from the avalanche debris that piles up each winter (the face above is about 4,000 feet high). So there are a couple of caves, usually about 20-25 feet high, icy tubes that head under the snow which at this time of year will be more or less like firn ice. There are some falls on the cliffs above, and these freeze up a couple of times a winter but the elevation is very low. In the right conditions, some long snow/ice routes can be had there, and about five years ago there was a very nice article in the American Alpine Journal describing one route, mixed and ice and stuff, that was quite hard.

I believe the book was "Routes and Rocks in the Mt. Challenger Quadrangle." Back about 1980, a buddy and I read in there that the easiest approach to the Luna Creek Cirque was to hike up Luna Creek. It was quite a thrash. If you tried to hike East-West accross the North Cascades through low elevation valleys without trails, it would take MORE than a week.

Last time I was over there for a trail project, the good Mr. Angel said don't worry about the sticker. I have yet to see them ticket am organized work party -- that would be poor style, wouldn't it?

Bring your chainsaw if you want to climb in Darrington. I'm not kidding. 4 1/2 miles up the Clear Creek road a 3' hemlock blocked the WTA work party this morning, so the project was "called" for today and it may be a few days or even a couple of weeks before somebody goes up there and turns it into firewood.

I would agree that November is a difficult time to climb a high peak in the Cascades, but I would not necessarily say it will be impossible. These peaks do in fact get climbed all year, and you might get lucky enough to hit a weather window and find reasonable snow conditions although your chances would be much greater in August, or even May. If you are coming out here anyway, keep an open mind. As a general rule of thumb, the best time for you to climb just about anything is the time that you can get there.

Thanks, but it hasn't just been me. Some people who post here have turned out for work parties (ErikN, ChucK and Andy Fitz to name a few), and there are several Darrington fanatics who have been quite active up there but who do not post here and who would prefer to remain anonymous.

Roads and trails leading to Darrington rock climbs have seen significant improvement this year. In June we brushed additional parking for the trail up to the Comb Buttress. In July, the Washington Trails Association/North Face/Access Fund trail project continued with the construction of a fabulous trailbed across what was a mossy and treacherous talus field up near the base of Three O'Clock Rock and there was also some drainage improvement in a muddy area near the start of the trail. In August, the contractor doing brush cutting along the side of the main road to the Three O'Clock Rock trailhead was persuaded to run his tree eating machine a mile up the road toward Exfoliation Dome, and the Forest Service gave their approval and even contributed toward the cost of that effort. Last weekend we filled potholes and repaired a couple of washouts on the road to the parking area for Green Giant Buttress and the well-known Dreamer route. This coming weekend, October 27-28,the Washington Trails Association (WTA) is running a trail project up there. The WTA is a volunteer trail maintenance group, not specifically oriented toward promoting climber-access, but this ongoing project has led to greatly improved access at Three O'Clock Rock. To participate, sign up at wta.org (from their main page, select "trail teams" and "schedule" or something like that.

Itis easy to sit here at your desk and criticize JK or anybody else. On Everest as anywhere else in the world there is plenty of valid criticism, of course, but there is also a distinct lack of air pressure up there and it changes everything. Before I went over there in 1996, a friend of mine told me: “if you go up on one of the big guys, don’t think it will be like a normal mountain -- its every man for themselves up there – so take care of yourself.” And he was right. On a low technical route at high altitude I saw people coming and going at their own pace, with no concern for their “companions.” And I believe that one member of our party, a doctor, pronounced another climber dead when that climber was clearly not dead, just so he could justify in his mind not helping the guy. I don’t think that our doctor would have done that in the Cascades. It is a different world up there. [This message has been edited by mattp (edited 10-23-2001).]

On this board, there have been several discussions related to how to safely climb solo, with one being http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000088.html Have fun out there.

October 13-14, 2001 On this poor weather weekend, Matt Heller and I climbed Three Fingers and spent the night in the lookout up on top. We never did see anything, except for a brief hour on Sunday morning when we were just at the top of the cloud layer and could see Mount Rainier to the south. Our original fantasy was to traverse from Three Fingers to Whitehorse, so we first drove up to Darrington and parked a car at the Lone Tree Pass trailhead. Despite an early start in Seattle, this meant that we didn't actually leave the Goat Flat trailhead until 10:00 a.m.. The lower portion of the trail, a muddy mess of running water and slippery roots in addition to the MUD, went fairly well. At a bog about two miles up the trail, however, we lost the trail. "I know where to go," said Matt, "follow me." So I did. Soon we found ourselves in another bog, with no sign of the trail anywhere near. So I took over. "I know how to read a map," I said, "and I have a compass and altimeter. Follow me." And so he did. But I went west when I thought I was going east and we climbed up a ridge and then descended again to end up right back where we started, at the first of the two bogs. Once finally back on the trail, we continued up into the snow (slush), found Goat Flat in the fog, and continued on through snow and fog to the notch that Beckey says is misidentified as Tin Pan Gap. By this time, we had decided to simply climb Three Fingers and forget about the traverse to Whitehorse. With some difficulty due to the lack of visibility and the fact that we neither had a route description nor had either of us been there before, we found our way onto the upper part of the mountain and, just as it was getting dark, we agreed to head up a slope that appeared to be leading toward the highest terrain though we really couldn't see enough to be very sure. The lights were starting to go out on us and I figured we were screwed. We had sleeping bags and a Megamid, so we weren't going to die, but the wind was blowing and there was no flat place nearby. We were both wet. So it wasn't going to be all that nice of an evening. I climbed up a pinnacle of rime ice and looked around to the right for the ladders that we had heard were on the "back side." No ladders over there, but it sure did feel as if it was a long way down. Then I called to Matt -- "shall I look around some more? We can set up the Megamid in the dark so I might as well look around some more." No answer, so I front-pointed across the slope and looked around to the left. Hallelujah! Just a short rime ice traverse away, a series of ice encrusted ladders led to the lookout. We arrived in complete darkness, beat the ice off the door with the shaft of the ice axe, and figured out how to crawl inside. Epic over, instead of epic just beginning.

Cavey: I asked.

Terminal, Freeclimb, Pope, Lambone, Sexual, ChucK, Rafael, Peter, Retro, Dru, Captain, Eddie, Duaner, Nolanr, Jbmaker, Mystic, PMS, Willstrickland, Titsmark, DanPetersom, Slaphappy, Viktor... and more: you have chimed in on the bolting questions -- Any comments on this? [This message has been edited by mattp (edited 10-18-2001).]

Sitting here at work, most of us agree that the EDK is plenty strong. Out in the mountains, I find that something like half my climbing partners balk at it when I start to tie the ropes together that way. Clearly, they are clueless babies ;-) but I accomodate their juvenile insecurity every time. So far, I have very rarely had the DF cause a completely stuck rope when the EDK would not have done the same (such as pulling the rope into a crack or bush) but it does happen.

There was about 6" at 5,000' and about 1' of snow and rime ice above 6,000' on Three Fingers on Saturday, though the warming on Sunday made for lots of sluffing off the rocks and the snow below 6,000 was melting pretty fast.

I raised some questions about them because there has been a history of some unfriendly law enforcement and some private property/access issues in the canyon. Prior posts on this thread concluded that the thefts were just that (theft), there was some discussion of this at the CC.Com megafest, and I've been talking in private to some Leavenworth locals about it. So far, I have heard nobody suggest there is any reason to think that the hangers should not be replaced. An anonymous donor, who doesn't want to be given credit (I suppose for fear that there might be some issue) has offered hangers. [This message has been edited by mattp (edited 10-16-2001).]

So far I note one response to my post suggesting a discussion about how we might organize as a user group to support the maintenance of our crags. I realize that abstract talk about how we might organize the climbers' community may seem unimportant or, worse, some may feel that all it could lead to is more diatribe and no real progress. Further, we here at cascadeclimbers.com may not speak for the climbing community, and such a topic may not be as entertaining as something more salacious. So maybe this is not the right forum for that discussion. But if you don't participate in some such discussion either here or somewhere out in the real world outside of cyberspace, you are leaving your climbing future up to those that join clubs or, more likely, up to the zealots who have the motivation to take things into their own hands. We complain of sport bolters destroying the climbing environment, or bolt choppers promoting bolt wars, but even if those "other guys" are misguided or worse, at least they are taking a day out of their lives to put some real time and money into making what they obviously must feel is a real contribution to our sport. I believe that the unfortunate truth is that many of us would rather complain about how things are than to participate in a discussion of how we might make them better. It's often the same way with an organized work party -- nobody likes the muddy mess on a Darrington approach hike, the parking problems at Little Si, or the trash and erosion at Vantage, but how many of you rock climbers have turned out for an Access Fund trail project this year? Have you attended a meeting of the Frenchmen's Coulee Climber's Association, or taken some other direct action toward contributing to the climbing environment? Sure, meetings can be boring or even worse they may degenerate into a mudfest. And sure, work projects often involve work and frequently do not yield any tremendous benefit. And yes, if you install or remove bolts, and even if you replace old ones, you are likely to draw some complaint from somebody. But what else can we do? "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

I believe the answer to Jerry's questions lies in the following three factors: 1. The peak is highly viewable and very dramatic, so it attracts a lot of notice. 2. The peak is technically easy and stands right above a highway exit, so just about anybody can get there. 3. Like many mountains, it is dangerous. It has loose rock, steep cliffs, mossy rock, etc. In fact, it is probably more dangerous than just about any Cascade peak that is as easy to climb as it is. Factors 1 and 2 lure many climbers who are not ready for factor 3.

Here’s my analysis of the relative merits of Tele gear: 1. Tele tours better. Whether using light or heavy boots and skis, the flex in the foot is (for me) significantly more comfortable. Also, the fact that the ski is slightly sprung so that you can pick up the heal of the ski when stepping over logs or other obstacles in the woods is a definite plus for a lot of PNW tours. 2. Tele gear skis just as well, overall. When it is better to use the parallel turn, I parallel on my tele set up, and it works just fine though not quite as effective as would a binding with a locked heal. But when it's time to make slow speed turns because of some kind of terrain problem, I've got my AT buddies beat every time – the tele turn can be executed with almost zero hull speed. 3. Tele gear is not as safe. The bindings don’t release like the AT or downhill bindings. I know, I’ve tried the release plates, but I just couldn’t get them to work all that well and they aren’t designed to release in the same range of situations. 4. Tele gear is a historical accident. Had it not grown out of cross country skiing, few modern Americans would be using telemark rigs (and probably few people in Norway, either, for that matter). . 5. Tele gear has cache. People say “hey man, you skied that on TELE gear? Rad.” 6. Tele skiing is just plain fun. Apart from skiing, U believe my tele boots are better suited for the peak climbs that top many tours, even with that damn flange on the front of the foot. When it's time to kick steps and walk a little bit, my plastic tele boots are more comfy than the AT boots my friends wear, because of the foot flex. When it's time for a little ice, I use rigid crampons and they climb OK, too (I realize that earlier threads have included assertions that this will break the crampons, and I'm sure it will happen to me if I try to climb Mt. Rainier that way, but I've used the rig in the Coast Range and in the Cascades for relatively short climbs like N. Face of Chair and NE Face of the Tooth, and my crampons show no signs of undue stress.

Vantage and Exit 38 and both areas have seen an effort to establish "steering committees" which might play some oversight role in determining where and when new routes and new bolts may be added (Exit 38 has a standing committee and they have formulated rules specific to that area, and I believe the Vantage effort is in an earlier development stage but may be headed that way). As to the actual active maintenance of the crags, however, the Access fund has sponsored trail projects but the only organized effort to replace old bolts or to remove misplaced ones that I have heard of in Washington took place at Peshastin, several years ago. Other bolt replacement or removal efforts have been undertaken by people who took it upon theirselves to do so on their own, sometimes with contributions from a jar in a climbing shop or from a group like the Washington Mountain Alliance, but generally without any broader community involvement other than perhaps talking with their friends before they went out to tackle a particular project. On this bulletin board, we have seen a great deal of discussion of whether or not bolts ever belong next to cracks, whether they belong on "traditional" crags, or whether sport climbing is something that should be encouraged. These are important issues, and the debates continue. However, I suggested in another thread that I am interested in what might be the PROCESS for making the decision with regard any particular bolt or fixed pin or whatever: how do we support the maintenance of the vertical part of the climbing environment that we all cherish so much? Are committees like those at Exit 38 and Vantage the wave of the future? How do we encourage individual climbers or clubs to take responsibility for maintaining the routes? Should we?

Right on, Beck: the snow here is FAB. Many backcountry skiers go to their few favorite destinations without really thinking about the possibilities of finding different snow conditions above and below timberline, east or west of the crest, in the shade or in the sun, on leeward or windward slopes, etc. Also, sometimes lower is better so that when there is a lot of new wet snow up high there may be great hardpack on slopes at lower elevations. If you want it, great snow conditions are out there waiting for you most of the year. And we don't have to deal with much of that damn pain in the ass snow stuff here in town.

I believe we may be making at least minimal progress toward some definition of what are right and wrong places for bolts but this discussion raises another question: who should be performing this maintenance and what should be the process for identifying projects in need of attention? The Access fund has sponsored trail projects and at Vantage and Exit 38 there has been a move toward the creation of "steering committees" who are hoped to be able to oversee the establishment of new routes and new bolt placement at some local areas (Exit 38 has a standing committee and, I believe rules and stuff specific to that area). But the only organized effort to replace old bolts or to remove misplaced ones that I am aware of having taken place in Washington was at Peshastin, several years ago. Other bolt replacement or removal efforts have been undertaken by people who took it upon theirselves to do so for their own personal reasons. Leaving aside their motivations and the results of their efforts, what do you guys think should be the PROCESS for making these decisions, who should be responsible for them, and how do we support the maintenance of the vertical part of the climbing environment that we all cherish so much? My apologies to those who are tired of this topic.