mattp

Actually, Total Soul has not been retrobolted. The route was only put up in 1999, and it was done in a modern style with all bolts being 3/8" and chains at all belay stations except the last. Although there are some runouts here and there (it is not completely sportified), I would be surprised if anybody felt the need to retrobolt it. There is one pitch, and parts of two others, that follow the old Rubber Soul line. And on these, there are some bolts where formerly there were none.

I have used both the reverso and a plain ATC for belaying two followers at the same time. I fine either one satisfactory, though it is certainly much easier to use the revserso. I am sure the gigi or whatever it is would work also. I find little problem bringing up two seconds at the same time, and it not only increases the speed of a three-person party, it also allows one to coach the other if you if the third person is a novice, or it is just plain fun if both followers are comfortable on the terrain. I would not recommend belaying two climbers at once on a pitch that is not relatively straight-forward or were there is traverssing involved, but on a straight-up crack or simple line of bolts, it is quite manageable.

I have at least six old ropes that are in good enough condition to use for top-ropes, if that is what you want them for. For other acivities, I may have ten. If somebody had a digital camera, particularly if they had one of those mini battery-powered printers that go with it, we could have some real fun. I can bring a 6 foot folding table if you think there may be a shortage of picnic table area (I can't remember what the group camp looks like). You've mentioned slack line and bouldering, but one point not yet discussed is the fact that the world's number one swimming hole is located right below a climb called "Titties and Beer." It is on private property, but the owner has in the past acquiesced to climber's use of the place. There is a wonderful sunbathing ledge, and a thrilling high jump. Perhaps a diving contest?

Every guy in Seattle wants to be helpful, eh? I cannot pretend to know what harness is best for a female figure, but from my observation I would say that women come in different shapes and sizes just as do men and I am skeptical of "woman's" sizing -- my Petzl harness with adjustable leg loops is the most comfortable harness I have ever had for hanging belays, and it also adjusts to fit my 100 pound niece just fine. I'd second what Hikerwa said -- don't take anybody's advice over what you can learn by trying them on. Go to every store in town, and try on every model that may fit you properly. If you are going to be using it for rockclimbing, the most important thing would be how comfortable it is to hang in -- have them set up a rope so you can actually hang in the harnesses. If you are going to use it primarily for mountaineering, you want one that will be compatible with the waistbelt on your pack – don't get a harness with a lot of gear loops on it and have them fill up a pack and see how the waistbelt feels when put on over the harness. If you are one of those hardcore climbers that will stay out in the rain, look for something without any fur or fabric.

TTT- I've been wearing cotton in the mountains for over thirty years because I like the way it breaths and how it feels. I've worn cotton underwear and shirts ski mountaineering, ice climbing, alpine climbing, and I can assure you, cotton is not the silent partner to the Green River Killer. I do have to be careful to take my shirt off when I start sweating (I've been seen skinning uphill in a snowstorm with a bare back), and if I do get my shirt wet I often wear it over my sweater so my body heat can dry it. -mattp

Check out the flared chimney on Aries, at Index. I've seen people who lead 5.11 sport routes whimper and retreat from it. Unless you are a truly bold trad climber who specializes in such things, I bet you won't think it is 5.8!

Nice!!!

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000188.html

So Eddie - You indicated you wanted to share a ride. But no response to my message. Is it my breath? Anyone else heading to West Seattle from points NW? - Matt

The northwest ridge is a spectacular hike up a sharp ridgecrest, ending with a short boulder problem up a ten foot wall, followed by a scramble rightward to the summit ridge. If you want to belay the exposed class three climbing, take some VERY long runners and a single rope.

For a mountaineering outing,Cache Col is not all that difficult to reach, but you should bring an ice axe and crampons because the snow slopes on the teraverse/climb from Cascade Pass can be icy. The col has a nice campsite, and the views are as good as it gets. I have found running water shortly down the south side of the col, even as late in the year as October. I believe that class three routes can be found on Mixup Peak, Magic Mountain, Hurry-Up Peak, and Art's Knoll. Formidable and Spider would be doable as well.

Sorry for a redundant post.

Sean - The phone books says the Alki Tavern is at 1321 Harbor Avenue Southwest. To get there, we take the West Seattle freeway (Spokane Street) from I-5 or surface streets two miles south of downtown Seaettle, and I believe that Harbor Avenue is a marked exit diverging right soon after cresting the W. Seattle bridge, about two miles from I-5. The tavern would be about a mile or mile and a half north on Harbor Avenue Southwest, eh? However, Washington state road signs can be confusing - do we need to know, in advance, which lane to stay in or something like that? Is the tavern easy to spot? Mattp

Like Gillmore said, in front of the electric chair, "let's do it!" 75 cent burgers? How much is a pint?

I know that many people fear that sharing information on how to place bolts will only increase their proliferation, but I believe that most people who are going to waste a perfectly good climbing day setting bolts rather than climbing are likely to do so with or without the information. Many people will say you should not get bolts at a hardware store but should order them specially from somewhere like Metolious. The metals vary, and I am sure that it DOES make a difference where you get them, but in general I bet just about ANY 3/8" bolt has sufficient strength that you can rely upon it, as long as it was placed properly. The same is probably true for any unrusted 1/4" bolt. When replacing or removing bolts, I have found some 3/8 stud anchors that pulled right out with little effort, and some old 1/4" x 1" button heads that were difficult to remove even with a crowbar. Stainless steel, while somewhat brittle and not as strong as some other materials when new, will take longer to rust. For some further discussion of these issues, go to http://www.safeclimbing.org/info.html and http://www.fishproducts.com/tech/techweenie.html It would be nice if the removable bolts would work, but although the device itself may be fine, an unfilled bolt hole is often damn near impossible to spot even if you know exactly where it is. As far as I know, the best way to minimize the visual impact of a bolt is to use a powder coated hanger. My friend Dave has tried splatter painting his hangers to make them look just like the rock, but home painting wears off stainless steel very fast. The stainless steel hangers are so shiny that they can often be seen glinting in the sun, from several hundred feet away. Information on how to place bolts is beginning to become available, but harder to find is any useful discussions of how to choose a potential new route, and exactly how to locate the "correct" placements. I will paint a target on my back by offering the following: 1. To my eye, bolted climbs are appropriate at a place like Exit 38, but not on Prussik Peak or Castle Rock. Anyone installing bolts, even if only setting a bolt here or there to link crack systems, should think carefully about whether their installation will be acceptable to other climbers. 2. I believe that most climbers, whether "sport" or "trad," young or old, agree that routes should not be too closely spaced. What that means is different at Vantage and on Snow Creek Wall, but it has been said that "squeeze jobs suck." 3. Earlier posts on this board have suggested that if a route can be top-roped it should not be bolted. Consider this. 4. It has often been suggested that if one is going to set a new route, they should do it from the ground up. In my experience, this does not always lead to the best outcome when one is setting a crag route. There are two reasons I say this: (1) the leader is probably going to be more concerned with protecting his or her own ass than they are about setting something that is most useful for others who may follow, and (2) the view from below is limited and often does not reveal where the best connection between two crack systems may lie, or where the best belay ledges are, or whatever. If you do decide to be a coward and set bolts on rappel, the outcome will be vastly improved if at least two climbers top-rope each pitch and discuss in detail each individual bolt placement. Is there natural pro nearby? Can a slight change in one placement render another unnecessary? How will the rope run? Will someone who is shorter than you be able to reach the clip? Etc. 5. In the old days, it was hard to place bolts and every placement would be carefully considered just in order to be practical. With modern power drills, the urge to pull the trigger can cloud common sense. The resulting mess is not easily cleaned up.

The Northwest Ridge and Lava Cleaver are also good rubble climbs, though both involve several hundred feet of steep snow which may be icy at around the 10,000' level. For a ski descent, the south side is good as soon as the road opens (usually June) and both the S. Ridge and the SW Chutes can be skied in August, though the sun cups on the S. Ridge are usually HUGE by then. The SW Chutes is one of my favorite ski runs in Washington. However, it is steep and long - do not try to ski or ride it when the sun is not shining, because a fall on an icy surface would be very hard to arrest and you might go for a 3,800 foot shred.

Adam - I'm not familiar with that particular jacket but the truth is, it doesn't matter WHAT jacket you take up Mt. Adams. On a sunny day in the middle of a high pressure period in the summer, a sweater and windbreaker would do and you will be way ahead of half the people there if you take ANY jacket. In general, when you are on a mountain where you can't quickly run back to your car or tent you should take down, synthetic, wool or whatever ... with a second jacket of some kind of shell gear that should be waterproof or "waterproof breathable" (e.g. gortex). If you want to save money, you can get this stuff at the Salvation Army or Army Surplus shop, or buy used equipment. I often carry a simple wool sweater and a cheap raincoat, with the combination being damn near as warm and light and compact as cloting that would cost several hundred dollars if I bought it brand new at Marmot. The modern (expensive) materials have their place, however, and they do perform very well. Check out www.promountainsports.com Mattp [This message has been edited by mattp (edited 09-01-2001).]

Colin - Wouldn't the fact that 80,000 cubic feet of material just swept the gully mean that it is probably relatively safe right now? Or do you think there is another large piece just ready to blow? -mattp

Quite right, Iain, I mean the Prouty. It is a nice climb, starting from the lake set in the moraine below the Prouty. Easy travel to the schrund, where you step into a moat and climb a short pitch of rock to regain the snow, and then you complete the climb on steep snow directly above that big yawner.

Hakiowa - Just as in any conversation, this site contains plenty of meaningless or misleading information but I have not yet observed anybody to lie about the beta they offer. It IS a matter of personal experience and the same outing may be a lark one day, and an epic the next. You suggest that there must be something wrong with the beta when one post declares the hike to Burgundy a short approach, and another declares it a ball buster, or when one message says the N. Face climb is "3 easy pitches up to 5.8" and another says "6 pitches of honest 5.8". I know that these kinds of discrepancies can drive you crazy when you are trying to anticipate every detail of a proposed climb, but my advice is to use your own judgment as to whether or not you think you are up for such a climb, and then not to worry about the specific "beta." In this case, you can look at a topo map and you will see that the approach to the col is something like two miles, with something like 3,000 feet of elevation gain. In fact, that is a short approach that is a real ball buster, so both posts were correct. But more important would be whether the posts indicate it has a lot of brush crawling (it does not) or loose scree (there is some), and you can then judge from your own past experience whether or not you will likely complete that approach with time and energy for a rock climb. Similarly, whether it is 3 pitches or 6 is probably not all that significant, and certainly the difference between "easy" and "honest" 5.8 is not very great. Where prior posts have indicated "the approach to the col up the gully is straight forward" or "the gully is a death trap and one should climb two troughs to the left," you are going to have to go up there and use your own judgment anyway. My advice is not to pay too much attention to the nuances of any particular beta unless you really think the person offering that information is not only knowledgeable but also that they are offering that advice with an understanding of what your abilities and inclinations are. Otherwise, take it for what it is - information that may or may not turn out to be useful or even accurate - and then form your own conclusion. Mattp

I assume Jon would be referring to the South Ridge when he says there is no snow on it. Even on a high snow year, that route will be snow-free by this time so I am not surprised that it is dry. There are almost certainly some small snow patches in bowls on the west side, and the climb from that direction is an enjoyable class two outing that is rarely done. The Collier will have a large schrund by this time of year, but it can usually be passed on rock.

I agree with Kayagpa about the ridgerest - I find it both lighter and warmer than a thermarest. But lots of people will argue this point. One other important point that I believe is not mentioned above is to keep your sleeping bag dry. By paying attention, you can sleep under a tarp in a blizzard and keep everything dry, but I have seen people completely soak their sleeping bag - even in a hut or an expedition tent - by simply being careless. Consider a garbage bag lining your stuff sack when travelling, don't get your bag out while you'll still be in and out of the tent and getting everything wet, pay close attention to ventilation and frost, hang your sleeping bag on a ski to air out while you break camp in the morning, etc. Mattp

BR - There was snow in the basin. A climber on the normal route did kick rocks in our direction, but the ramp on the east face headwall runs diagonally and the rockfall dropped into a gully/chiminey system to our left and we were probably in more danger from other climbers while descending the normal route. I lived in Olympia twenty years ago and climbed in the Olympics then. I am still interested, though. D - Thanks for the info on the E. Ridge. It looks as if the rock could be pretty solid and very enjoyable; how was the "approach" on the lower portion of the ridge? Matt

The East face is a class three scramble, with an exciting finish leading directly to the summit. I have taken beginners up it several times and I would recommend it for a climber looking for a little more adventure than a walk up. It is better earlier in the season when some of the debris is covered with snow, but I climbed it this past weekend (late August) and we had a good trip. The route is not in the guidebook, or perhaps it is the route that is listed as the "East Ridge" but is not correctly described (the route never touches the east ridge and there is no chalkstone gully but I have talked to several people who went to climb the East Ridge and ended up on the E. Face headwall). Estimated time: four hours. A short rope might come in handy, and an ice axe is required until at least mid season. Begin the climb on the Mt. Ellinor/Mt. Washington road, about a quarter mile past the turnoff for the upper Mt. Ellinor trailhead, and a couple hundred yards east of a prominent waterfall in a slot left of a hairpin turn. A climbers path ascends steeply through big timber on a wooded rib, and this can be followed for a thousand feet or so (keep in mind that the path is probably the variation of the standard route which the book says eventually cuts left to rejoin the South Ridge route, whereas the basin below the east face is quite far to the right of the rib). Where the woods begin to get rocky, look for a gully to the right which, after a very little bit of brush, opens up and climbs rightward to a little ridgelet below a rocky tower a couple hundred feet high. Traverse right below that tower, to reach an open basin below a larger tower, several hundred feet high. Scramble up and right, to emerge into the basin below the east face, where there is year 'round snow. This approach to that basin avoids much of the brushy and cliffy terrain that one encounters if they climb from the Jefferson Pass trail. There is a little bush, some scree, and a little scrambling, but nothing truly alarming. From the basin, the seven hundred foot headwall appears ominous, but a low angled ramp leads from lower right, diagonally up and left to the summit. Scree or snow leads to the ramp, which is probably 30 to 35 degrees and offers a serious sense of exposure but no real technical challenge. Near the top, a horizontal ledge system crosses the ramp and a boot path enters from the left and exits to the right. The easiest route to the summit follows the gully (the final extension of that ramp) for another 100 feet or so to reach the summit blocks. On the descent, the path that came from the left will lead to the standard south ridge route ("route 1" in the Climber's Guide.)

I climbed a very nice class three route on Mt. Washington in the Olympics, the East Face. This route is not described in the guidebook but is a great outing and my fiancee even enjoyed it.