mattp

It is probably a good idead to assume that your beacon won't save you, and to try to evaluate the hazards without counting on being dug up, but if such a premise leads you to think you and your buddies don't have to practice using the beacons, you are making a mistake. I don't think that is what anybody here was suggesting, but I just thought I'd add a plug for being sure you are good at using the equipment that just might save a life.

Cavey is right. As Slaphappy's story would suggest, it doesn't take much. There was a picture in that Tony Daffern (is that how he spells his name?) book that showed what had been a deadly avalanche that occurred in what amounted to little more than a large tree-well. Most of us approach a large, open, wind-loaded slope with caution and think we're safe when on small slopes or where there are trees nearby. One of the scariest slabs I've triggered was below timberline at Paradise, on one of these great powder days where we were yo-yoing in the glades on Mazama Ridge because we were being "cautious." A 3' crown on a ninety foot slope made a VERY big pile at the bottom.

So if Gregm's stats are right, it sounds as if the answer to Slaphappy's initial question is that they really don't improve your chances all that much - maybe by 15% if your buddies are real good at using their beacons to find you. And I would guess that wet slab avalanches being the hazard that we face very often here in the PNW, it is very likely that the improvement may be less than what might be achieved elsewhere. As noted, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't carry one – hell they don't weigh very much and they might make a difference, either while you or your buddies remain alive or after they are dead. While it is true that the snowpack here may be more predictable than in other mountain regions, there are a lot of times when there may be pocket hazards or when the conditions may be marginal but you still want to go skiing or climbing (particularly the former, because a lot of fresh snow makes for high hazard and good turns). Dig lots of pits, watch out for each other, and be careful.

Don't those things send out tiny radio waves that actually prevent avalanches? I want my money back.

The "best" is a matter of personal preference that depends in part on whether you are planning to share. I find that brandy seems to be the most widely accepted when I pass the bottle around a campfire, perhaps because it is slightly less in proof and slightly sweeter than most hard alcohol. Personally, I prefer scotch, fifteen years old, with an icicle in it.

Would that be "hippie fred," of Index fame?

"The Joke" is an old school test-piece at Bon Echo, in Ontario. On the first ascent attempt, the leader fell off and broke his leg. He healed, and went back for a second attempt. He fell off and broke it again. That's the joke (no joke).

The logging road is not plowed, though I have sometimes seen snowmobilers using it. The winter parking spot is on that Duffy Lake road, about three or four miles (just guessing) east of the top of the pass, perhaps a mile east of the quanset hut where they keep sand and a front-end loader for clearing the avalanches that fall from Mt. Rohr. Just after a sign indicating "end avalanche area," look for a plowed parking area on the right. Climb over the snowbank at the east end of the parking area, and head down through a clearcut a couple hundred yards SE to find the first creek crossing, marked with a large orange circle on a tree on the far bank. The route is almost always easy to follow, but I could give a more complete description if you email me.

Where are the climbs, rocky and bullwinkle? Some of the rocks that often have ice formed on them on that E. face of Joffre were looking pretty thin, though we never got a real clear look.

Assuming you are talking about the standard route, I would expect it to be about as easy as it can be. The trail to the hut is well-packed, though the creek crossings at the start are more dicey than usual. Up to about 7,000' on the Anniversary Glacier approach, yeserday's snow surface mostly had 5-15 loose snow but in some places the crust from last week was blown clear. The glacier itself is sufficiently filled in that there will be no unusual difficulty getting to the col. We did not see Matier, but we did see Vantage Peak and the rocks high on the mountain were very filled in and looking wind-blown, there had been a recent avalanche on the north facing slope which drains into a back bowl not visible from Cerise Creek, and the cornices were not real large. I'd expect firm snow and rime from the col to the summit, with the possibility of some wind-slab. I know you asked Dru, but that's my 2 cents.

I can't answer question number one, but most people who climb it on skis do not even carry a rope. In the summer, whether on skis or not, many parties do not rope up.

Actually I made the mistake but I'm so cool I'm sure you'll forgive me. It's ELYSIEN. Oops, I did it agin. Elysian.

Elisian Brewing Company, 1221 E. Pike, on Capitol Hill.

Yes, snowmobiles at Cerise. They went up Twin One Creek, and came over the pass at the head of Cerise Creek. They were backcountry snowboarders who thought they'd get there the "easy way," but it sounded as if they worked harder than those who skied in. Although I was at first unhappy to find a snow machine in the area, I must say that they weren't completely obnoxious about it -- once they arrived, they did not cruise the area at all, and they parked away from the hut and out of sight. To get up the hills to ride their boards, they used snowshoes.

Let's save the trip to "poverty rock" for some time when we can all have fun with Caveman.

As of 1/13/02 the low to mid elevation snowpack in the Pemberton area is quite a bit thinner than normal but in the alpine zone it is closer to an average year. Matt and I were up in Cerise Creek this weekend and as the avalanche reports had indicated, we found a pretty stable snowpack with a rain-soaked but refreezing snowpack at lower elevations (below about 5,000 feet) and higher up there was 1-3' of fairly well-consolidated storm snow, crusty up to about 6,500 feet, sitting over a very well-consolidated base. There was an invisible weak layer about 8" down which would release on the first jump in a Rutschblock test, but nobody triggered anything with skis, snowboards, or snowmobiles. The newest snow consisted largely of grauppel. Oh yes, and with poor visibility, we skied in gladed areas near timberline and made one attempt to head up into the alpine zone, but even though we found the ski conditions to be getting better and better the higher we went, we couldn't see anything so we went back to the hut for a nap.

Gosh (blush) ... I'm honored, guys. I didn't think anybody liked me. Thanks and lets go alpine. [ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

Many ski mountaineering bindings will accomodate plastic mountain boots. However, the rocker on a mountaineering boot is not compatible with all of them and at least one ski binding uses pins that only fit boots made specifically for it. Silveretta's fit almost all boots.

By the way, if anybody is interested, I have a pair of footfangs that are still in the box. All reasonable offers will be considered.

That would be 36 beers and a bong, right?

If carrying skis, lash them together so that you can carry them as a single unit, then hang them from the side of your pack, just above waist height, so that the tails point straight ahead of you and the tips trail behind. Steer the tails between the branches and follow them.

I'm curious. How many of you think the herb is a performance enhancing drug? I have some partners that claim it to be so, though my research reveals the contrary to be the case. While their sense of enjoyment may go up, their ability and motivation almost always seem less when they doob up on the way to, or during, a climb. In my view, Rebagliati (had he actually imbibed himself) should have been an EXTRA medal because if he could win his event while stoned, just think what he might have done without the smoke. [ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: mattp ]

Even in the worst of weather, you could get to the lower Nisqually Glacier, where there were plenty of open crevasses a week ago. From Paradise, you would hike up hill for twenty minutes or so to reach "glacier vista," and drop down the hill to the Nisqually. Depending on conditions, there might be some avalanche hazard dropping down that hill, though it faces west so in most storm conditions it is safer than other aspects.

Current forecast: SATURDAY AND SUNDAY...RAIN OR SNOW LIKELY. SNOW LEVEL FALLING TO AROUND 2500 FEET.

Dan - I have been down the Tahoma Glacier, and looked at Success Cleaver. Excellent choices, both, but probably better with as much snow cover as possible (Tahoma Glacier opens up by mid-season and I wouldn't recommend the Sicle as an alternative while the Cleaver -- well, its a cleaver). -Matt