mattp

I headed down there. We spoke briefly about the Wall of the Early Morning Light and some other early bolting ethics history including Roper's 1957 removal of bolts on Shiprock, Chouinard's 1960 article and how these issues have played out in Washington. He was quite friendly and I bought one his books, too. Royal is Royal.

I've been too busy working to respond to this but you are posting utter nonensense, Jay. The Wisconsin public employeess unions offered to take the hits proposed by their Governor. He declined to accept their acceptance of his demands. Instead he says he needs to break the union or unions just because he thinks this is the political moment to do so. Nobody in public employment is arguing that we should not pursue measures that might make the delivery of public services more cost-efficient, arguing that they should receive massive boosts in pay and benefits, or seeking to gut public services. I'm sorry if you've explained these claims in 5 pages of spray over the last day but, seriously, what are you really trying to say, Jay?

That's interesting, glasgow, though not really new. Entitlements and "defense" are what we need to cut, while busting unions or cutting NPR and heating oil for the elderly will not get us there. But one correction should be added. Social security is not part of the deficit. The budget hawks who voted for massive tax breaks and two very expensive wars hate social security but it is not part of the problem. It is part of their "solution" because it is part of their solution to - wait, what was the problem again? Jobs? Economy?

We have a little information on this at the WCC site. Mt. Erie profile. Snag Buttress and climbs to the right are open as are the Cirque and Power Line Wall. This is a slightly revised copy of the original closure photo. After I called and asked John Lundsford at Anacortes Parks, they said it was OK to climb ZigZag and revised the photo with that little zig zag at upper right.

Many years ago I climbed and camped with some friends who "dirtbagged it" as I think you are suggesting the term be applied. In all cases, I think, these individuals either moved on to something else (working) or I lost track of them. I have had friends who lived what I would call a minimalist lifestyle for many years on end but even these had at least some kind of seasonal employment or an independent source of wealth. I'm not suggesting that anybody who seeks a minimalist lifestyle is misguided. To the opposite, I would say that I applaud it. But I don't think it is easy. Particularly if you want to engage in an inherently expensive activity like mountain climbing. It need not be extremely expensive, but the costs of our hobby are not inconsequential.

I played it. I balanced the budget. I'm not sure how I did it but I did select a bunch of options including maintaining prior tax levels on the rich, cutting military staffing to a prior benchmark, cutting Iraq and Iran invovement, and raising social security to age 68 (note on the latter I am not at all sure if social security is insolvent as presently funded). I might have selected a cut to health care, but not much. My take away? We can balance the budget if we are willing to cut military spending and maybe some of the entitlements as well. But if we simply erase the Bush tax cuts to the rich who don't need them and adopt a sensible foreign policy, we have no problem with the deficit, regardeless of whether we revisit wellfare policy or not.

Pure diarrhea. Where on earth do you get this stuff? Seriously. I'm sure given the vastness of the internet as well as the frequency and stridency of this oft repeated, if "seldom referenced", claim you can find ample examples of leftist intellectuals making this argument. Please enlighten us! Diarrhea indeed. Jay can spin a good tale some times, but this is not even close.

Steve, A few random thoughts: In my opinion, ski boots hike "OK" in walk mode but on dry ground, at least, it is well worth the extra weight to hike in sneakers or some kind of light hiker and carry your ski boots. If they are somewhat flexible in the sole, telemark boots may offer a more natural and more comfortable walking boot than an AT boot but many of the modern boots are so stiff they don't much bend in the ball of the foot anyway. The AT boots do not allow the foot to flex but some have a sole with a "rocker" which is a concave shape that is at least a little more natural than a straight footbed. The duckbill on a telemark boot really impairs any kind of rock climbing. If you add a pair of rigid crampons they will perform OK on ice, though, and telemark boots do just find for step kicking.

bkb, You can go a long way on the cheap. For example, you do not need goretex or goosedown to climb any of the alpine climbs in Washington and, as you hint, virtually all the classic climbs and damn near all the popular mountain routes were climbed long before modern racks of camming devices and ice screws. You can buy a used pack on line or at the 2nd hand shop, and for the most part you don't need a $400.00 tent. Don't skimp on ropes and boots, though, and good luck on your quest.

Nice! You flew out from Ohio and were lucky enough to climb to the summit of one of these Cascade monsters? In the middle of winter? Fantastic. BTW: There is nothing like standing on top of one of the volcano's, in my opinion. Yes, there are some more serious objectives out there and some "ticks" in the North Cascades might exceed South Sister in terms of badass, but on a good day you can see Shasta and Rainier from the summit of South Sister--pretty good spread, huh?

A bit of thread drift, I know, but the rangers have asked climbers to stay out of the area around Skyline Buttress for the next month or so until they determine where the Peregrines are going to nest this year. WCC Update

For a breathable jacket there are a lot of windbreakers out there that weigh very little and don't cost a fortune. If it is below freezing and you are not spending a lot of time around waterfalls you won't need a waterproof - breathable "hardshell" and my experience has been that, even when spending all day in a wet snowstorm, I've been drier inside my windbreaker than my friends in their waterproof breathables. In warm weather, and if you are day-tripping or weekending it, the weatherman will give you a pretty damn good idea whether you need to worry about getting wet. Unless you are climbing something that is hard to get down from you can safely head out with just a windbreaker for most of the popular climbs in the Cascades.

I had somebody who has never climbed a mountain before asking where to go for gear advice in preparation for next summer's Rainier climb and I suggested Feathered Friends along with a couple of other local shops where she would get good advice. Parrotlet may have had a bad experience and there are other shops he can buy gear from but I doubt he's going to find that any of them are consistently better at providing what he said he was looking for on that particular day: specialty gear and information about how to use it. There are a few other shops I mentioned along side Feathered Friends, but they are certainly an excellent store and Feathered Friends is worthy of our support, among other things, because of all they contribute to local climbing outside their actual retail business. They were the first to get on board with the recent Index fundraising campaign, for example.

Sorry, Jay, but I don't get you. Do you favor funding public funded health efforts, public health programs, or public health care services? Really? (In response to prole's post about how you did not support public health you stated that he didn't know your "motives.")

While I have argued with JayB on a number of points, non stop, over several years, I'll agree with him on one small point made here. The public employee's are a lot stronger of a force than are the uninsured and unemployed. In the interest of balancing budgets, the poor and disabled ARE and WILL be thrown under the bus and, while I don't have any numerical data, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the "savings" to taxpayers that we reap from cutting public assistance do not offset rising employee benefits costs. Do State workers, generally much lower paid than their private counterparts, at least among the ranks of those with advanced degrees or other professional qualification, "deserve" to have their "lavish" pensions cut? Generally not, in my opinion. Jay feels differently. But I will agree that poor and disable people have less of a strident or effective lobby than do public employees.

One other stray thought: When I was there we travelled by thumb quite a bit. Fairly soon into our adventure we were told by a local that we should walk along the roadside, with thumbs out, but back to the oncoming traffic and walking as if we were prepared to walk to our destination. If we stood facing the traffic presenting ourselves as we would in the U.S., we would be perceived as lazy and undeserving of a ride. The local was right. When we started walking down the roadside with our thumbs out but backs to the traffic we actually got rides. It is funny how, in even a British commonwealth country (where I would expect sensibilitles to be relatively familiar), cultural things can be so oddly different. If you ask Kiwis's to tell you about hiking, light alpinism and diving, be prepared for some difficuties in translation. One common translation issue is that they tend to understate things. If they tell you a particular trek is "fairly easy," be careful.

Graham gives a lot of good advice but I'll add that, depending on your inclination and seasonal variations, other large glaciated peaks may not be out of the question. I climbed Mt. Cook twice in a week in mid February some years ago and walked from the road for both climbs. It was full value: just getting to the huts was equivalant to a fairly large North Cascades peak ascent. Also, Tongariro National Park on the North Island is worth a couple of days' tramping with incredible volcano's and huts to stay in. Lastly, many towns have motor camps which are sort of like a KOA campground here but they are much more friendly. You can get a shower and there are inside facilities for cooking and laundry.

Gonna see any of you folks tomorrow night?

We a have funny ways to talk about risk. I claim that I am a safe climber. I've been climbing for decades and the worst injury that anybody in my party has suffered is a torn tendon or sprained ankle. And, based on my record, climbing is not dangerous, right? Well maybe not. I have had friends die climbing. Even when faced with our friends' deaths, we can make some funny arguments. For example, some climbers argue that riding in a car is the most dangerous part of climbing. I don't think so. I have had more friends die climbing than I have had friends or family die in car accidents. Climbing is dangerous. And then there is the question of danger inherent in rock climbing vs. the danger in alpine climbing. I think rock climbing is relatively safe and, until just a couple of years ago, I could say that of all my friends who have died climbing they all had crampons on their feet when they died (this simple factor was pointed out to me by someone else, but it was an accurate reflection of what I have experienced). I think this is because, as is written in this tread, there is more "objective" danger in alpine climbing than there is in pure rock climbing. I believe that alpine climbing is more dangerous than rock climbing. However, even the relatively safe sport of rock climbing is in fact dangerous. I think it is worth the risk but we should all seek to stack the odds in our favor. Please don't laugh at me if I wear a helmet when sport climbing, and I'll see you in the hut if, when we are about to start an alpine climb, the temperature is rising.

And, another point: on the occasion when we were unable to run the stoves properly without increasing the ventilation we found the lack of oxygen completely undetectable while sitting inside the stove. One occupant expressed worry about it just based on a book-based suspicion and I completely blew him off until he showed me that a lighter fired up outside the cave door would fire properly but one fired up inside the cave would not. CO poisoning is insideous.

Mel, I've fired up stoves in snow caves for over 30 years. I have never noticed a problem except when I had a large party, and by that I mean ten people, in a snow cave with a "standard" vent of just a ski pole (with basket on it) stuck through the roof. On that occasion we were unable to run stoves inside for lack of oxygen until we made a larger vent. Otherwise, it is not crazy to run a stove in a snow cave as long as you keep making sure the vent is working. One other detail that you might consider: if the snow is not fairly settled the roof will sag while the parties are inside. If it IS settled it will still settle but more slowly. In storm-snow (recent accumulation) I have seen a snowcave with 5' of headspace settle to nearly nothing "overhead" overnight. It is creepy to wake up with the roof right in front of your nose.

It seems to me that skiing out of the Enchantments is usually a bitch. I've skied Mountaineers Creek in good snow, once, but I've skied a frozen climbers trail several times. I have not skied Rat Creek, but I've skied out via Toketie, in rotten pack sugar snow, and I've skied out via Snow Creek in breakable crust. Any time you are headed for a trailhead at 1500' in Washington (or, as in Mountaineers Creek a very popular climbers' trailhead) you are likely to run into trouble. Try Cannon Mountain, and you may just run into a ski run.

That is traditional pro for the place, Rudy, for sure. After they got over their shock at seeing two old guys with grey hair the rangers and all the other climbers were quite surprised to see someone interested in rock climbing as opposed to bouldering. I can see why it is known as such a great bouldering area - those hueco's are cool and there are edges all over the place!

There is a mix of mostly face but some crack climbing, and the pro on the routes we did was a combination of rather sparsely placed bolts and trad gear. The routes were rated a little soft but the bolts were far apart and on four out of the five routes we did you don't get pro until at least 25 feet off the ground.