mattp

It is not exactly "alpine" but Darrington climbs like Dreamer or the West Buttress on Exfoliation Dome are good choices for someone wanting to dial in some trad multipitch and rope handling kinds of things.

I disagree with that, gene, though that wouldn't be my main argument. I don't think rich or poor should have to pay to access public land. But with all the fees it cost something like $70.00 for two couples and two kids to camp overnight in Leavenworth, park at the trailhead, and camp in the wilderness for two nights on a recent trip I took. Yes, gas for two cars to Leavenworth and back cost more than half that, but still the cost certainly can be prohibitive.

Nice!

Is this a good idea or not for family camping and climbing? I'm thinking about a family expedition that will include some just along for the scenery, and hoping for sun.

Great pictures. Thanks.

Bill: I hear you. I was going to get up at 5:00 this morning and head out for a day at one of my favorite crags. But you know what? I stayed home and had a great day. I'll be out there next week and I bet you will too. Matt

It varies greatly from one route to the next. Silent Running usually dries up pretty quick but Revolver not so much.

I don't know, Mr. Pink. I agree with you in the respect that over the years I've heard dozens and maybe more stories where protective birds were glaring at climbers passing their nests with no interruption in nesting activities but I am not ready to conclude that the concerns are bogus - if that is what you are saying.

I think the biologists would agree that the birds can get used to climbers. The Audubon guy who I saw give a presentation on this topic did not directly state this but he did say that the birds are adaptable and really quite perceptive.

Yeah, but the problem is that you gotta be out there every day in March or whenever it is that they scope the nest. Then, as I understood it, they'll pick their current site according to "conditions" as they perceive them. Hey wait: didn't Pink post that the answer to his plight at Beacon would be to drive cars by there all the time? I was talking about "background," andI think that was the point of the biologist story. Not that climbers who enter the scene after "background" is established are easy to cope with. I'm not a biologist, and birds are not even my thing. I don't know about all of this, but the only point I have is that these questions are complicated and I believe the biologists and the land managers are trying to do the "right" or "good" thing.

Nope. The point I got was that the birds get used to "background" conditions and a change in those conditions really freaks them out.

Bill, I have not read all of this thread so I may have missed where this was discussed but I once heard a presentation from a biologist who was addressing that Fremont Bridge pair, and he explained how the birds were fine with thousands of cars going by, very close, but completely freaked out when a film crew of some kind set up near, but not even in sight of and maybe not even closer to, their nest. I don't remember the details, but it was a compelling tale. The take away I got from that lecture was that these birds are cool, they deserve protection, and that the measures needed to protect them are not necessarily intuitive. I bet you could find out about this with a minimal amount of research. I think the guy was from Audubon, and based in Portland.

It was a little wet at Index yesterday. The photographer from the Everett Herald who wanted to take pictures of climbers actually rock climbing got skunked but the rest of us managed to have a good time. Great show from Colin and the hosts at Wave Trek were great!

Think sun, if you want to climb. For dinner we'll be in the raft shop.

But he's right, j_b. State workers all live the high life and they are paid more than they are worth and have all these lavish benefits and such. That is why government employment has always been known as the target employment for anybody with the means. Oh yes, and government sucks. He's right, too, that the "gov" should not do anything that can't be done by private business. I mean, hell, we could have private police and fire departments, couldn't we? The market would assure that all who are deserving would get the services they need. The latte sipping do-nothing Orca crowd might actually have to pay for protection. Shame.

I didn't notice this before. Nice!

Rain plan is in effect. http://www.washingtonclimbers.org/IndexEvent/

I took a complete beginner up Mt. Cook about 20 years ago. Did I say it? This guy was a complete beginner. He'd been trekking in Nepal, which is where I had met him, but he had never climbed any alpine peak and out of some kind of lunacy I said I'd climb Mt. Cook with him. (I wanted to climb Mt. Cook and worried that I might not have a partner for such a venture if I just showed up there. As it turned out, I was wrong, and I actually met a qualified partner for a more difficult route that we climbed a few days later.) My beginner did very well and we made the summit and got back down safely and in fairly good time but I realized that even though I had prior guiding experience and the climb was well within my own level of mastery I had absolutely no business doing such a thing. I had no prior knowledge of the range and although this would not have changed much of what I actually did on that climb it would have made a world of difference in how I was prepared for it. Right in front of us on the Summit Rocks was a New-Zealand-based guide and his German client, and I gotta say: my "client" got to the summit and back (for "free") but the guide's client got the better package. I can't remember but the guide may have been named "Bruce." Bruce was very charming, knowledgeable, and fun to be around. And he knew the mountain. I'd recommend the local guide. I'm sure you know this, runnerwannabe, but I'd also say that you should expect to actually get way less than 1/2 of your itinerary done in the time period you describe. I don't mean to be discouraging in any way: the Alps are very cool. But the typical storm period is something like one every three days and climbing there is not at all a sure bet.

Yup. If the weather is less than stellar we'll be in the old Index Tavern {Wave Trek) and the owner there said some guy named Olyclimber does a hell of a version of New York New York. The rest of us will be celebrating climbing. [img:center]http://www.washingtonclimbers.org/Misc/hist.jpg[/img]

Fairweather: Didn't you argue that I was being irresponsible, taking a young nephew to protest the Iraq war on the eve of our invasion? Four or five years later you acknowledged that the invasion was probably based on false pretenses after you saw it on TV, and now are you are complaining about somebody marching with "commies?" Seriously.

It's looking like we'll have some door prizes and the good folks from cc.com are going to sing karaoke. More information here: WCC Site

Those individuals include more than one cc.com sprayer. Index is the product of a big time community effort!

Thanks, Mr. Four. Others who may be too shy to claim credit did a lot of the real work on this thing. And the support we received from the local climbing community was, seriously, overwhelming. Come join us on the 19th, and while you are at it visit the crag for some climbing supervised by guides. I'm trying to contact the professor for an explanation of the research taking place in the tunnel, and we'll think of some more fun to be had as the time approaches. Free barbeque and a slideshow by cc.com's own Colin Haley is already in the works (cc.com own's him, right?). Index has been a hotbed of activity for 50 years and we're looking forward to another 50 (maybe longer for some of you young'uns). Bring your pictures from today or yesteryear, in JPG format, on some kind of USB device, and we can probably put them into the slideshow.

John Arum was a really great guy.

Sad news.