mattp

I'm just saying that these fees add up. In my opinion, $45.00 is not trivial and it may indeed pose a real barrier in some cases. My main objections to the program lie elsewhere, as you point out.

If you want to go backpacking in Leavenworth for the weekend with two parents and two kids (one night out), and if you drive over the night before and stay in a campground so you can get an early start, and if you pay for trailhead parking and the wilderness permit, and if you do all of this with one car, it will come to something like $45.00.

My buddy drove up the road and cut some bushes off the road a few weeks ago. It oughtta be OK. The trail will be muddy at the start, and there will likely be snow piled up against the base of some or most of the climbs at Three O'Clock Rock. The radar makes it look as if it hasn't rained much or any there today, so it may not be terrible, but I'd plan on some drippy rock. The crag faces NE, so don't expect "blazing" sun. If this isn't enough to dissuade you, you'll probably find something OK to climb.

I have never been a talented ice climber though I do climb waterfalls and I've been climbing alpine routes for many years. I'm not into the latest gear, so take my advice for what it is. You are seeing here that everyone has their own favorite tools based on some nebulous combination of their own climbing preferences, their friends' preferences, and the latest trend in climbing magazine, along with what was on sale when they went to the store. I think Srikland and Glasgow, in particular, have made a couple of good points. For general mountaineering, don't get an ice climbing tool but, on the other hand, the distinction between ice and alpine tools starts to break down if you are going to pursue steep technical routes. (For example, I like my Grivel light machine for waterfalls and a second tool on alpine climbs.) Don't believe the hype about the latest "top shelf" tools, and if you possibly can you should go out and swing the tools for yourself. However, I'd recommend you consider that the performance of a tool on one particular outing in one type of snow or ice conditions does not necessarily indicate how much you will like it elsewhere. Remember, too, that people were indeed climbing very technical alpine routes and even waterfalls with straight-shafed wooden ice axes and 30 cm hammers before any of these modern tools were developed. The fact is, your tool selection is not as important as many people make it out to be. Good tools help, and they make things easier, but they rarely make the difference between success and failure on any given outing.

On Shuksan you might consider the White Salmon Glacier instead of the North Face if you are looking for a moderate climb and maybe a ski route (it is both). Also, you could do an interesting loop around the Summit Pyramid for extra time up high. For Baker, you might look at approaching from the Mount Baker Ski Area for a slightly longer trip. It is five or six miles of highcountry traversing and ski runs to get to the mountain that way, and the NE Ridge or whatever it is would be quite scenic. Niether of these would be 4-day trips (more like 2). The Tahoma Glacier on Mount Rainier might be more of a mini-expedition that could take 4 days. All of these would obviously be very conditions-dependant. You'll have to wait and see what happens in the next week.

You are correct that the routes can be done in a day, JJA, but I wouldn't bandy about the word "easily" without some qualifiers: you've got be be both fit and competent at that level of climbing difficulty. Granted, we're not talking about the North Face of Bear Mountain here, but I bet MOST parties that climb the West Ridge find the approach to the ridge, and the ridge itself, quite challenging; I bet they also find the hike up from the road quite taxing. The West Ridge of Forbidden is an alpine route for novice alpine climbers, and the East Ridge is really no more than that. I'd venture a guess that relatively few of the people interested in this route are either interested in or in any sensible use of the term capable of pulling it off in a single day.

Kurt, at last year's event:

Agreed.

Right on, Snoboy, but most of us just want to go climb the classics that haven't changed in 20 years. Bugaboos

If you are pondering a trip to the Bugaboos, I'd say go for it! There are incredible alpine rock climbs there -- at pretty much all grades (I'm not sure there are any 5.13's). From the "walk-up" 5.4 West Ridge of Pidgeon to the "hard man" 30-pitch mixed routes on Howser, it's all there -- and its all good. Did the photo contest pique your interest?

Indeed, it often is a condescending way to describe a climb but I'd say it is also a rather vivid one that is succinct and has significant meaning -- and the meaning os not necessarily sexist or critical of women. Nat makes a good point about how his reaction to his wife's fluctuating confidence level or fear might be different than his reaction to some other partner's, but I think he understates the matter significantly. For the same or similar reasons to the fact that ski instructors always try to separate couples or parents with their children, I think it is quite important to pick low-stress outings at least at the outset of one's climbing career with their wife or girlfriend and unless they have something to prove, I bet most women would pick a very comfortable climb for their first outing with their new boyfriend, too. My advice to anybody taking their newbie wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend/gay lover/or their child climbing is to pick a very easy outing, preferably to a place where you know exactly what to expect. If you have some kind of competitive thing going with them where this would be an insult of some kind, or beneath you, I think the odds are great that you are not going to enjoy climbing with them anyway. I've seen not only any possible interest in climbing destroyed by being overly ambitious, but I've seen it take a serious toll on relationships as well.

I feel your pain there, Foraker, but I think the selfish yob and his newbie friends probably have as much a right to be there as you do and if you are a regular climber, that experience may in fact be a lot more significant for those newbies than it would be for you. I bet lots of us wish somebody would have taken us up a classic like that when we were newbies. If you don't want to wait for other parties, I'd suggest you stay away from climbs like Nutcracker. Don't even think about dlimbing Outer Space.

Catbird, I am surprised if you have spent much time at Vantage and you don't have a keen awareness that it is more prone to rockfall than any other climbing area in Washington. No place else in the State do I avoid setting a belay right below a climb and there is no place else where I spend much time worrying about just sitting on the ground near where others are climbing. No place. Call me superstitious, I guess, but the number of rockfall accidents there almost certainly exceeds all other rock climbing area in the state combined. I think you would be doing folks a disservice if you in any way suggest that "it is no big deal." It is manageable, but it is a serious issue that requires careful management.

Summer will eventually be here. This was ChucK, below Jacob's Ladder, May 2, 2003:

You can still cross that bridge, though, and if you play your cards right you may not get a soaker out of it.

I'd say tread lightly. I have a friend who restores furniture, and he spends a lot of time and money NOT to refinish or even truly scrub things. It is a simple item, so I bet you could clean it up without messing with the original finish and without destroying the petina, and I bet that'd be maximum value.

He's definitely part mad-scientist. Go follow one of his routes and you will agree. Buy some gear from him and maybe he'll let you take a spin on his merry-go-round.

jaee - It may not be as much of a double standard as you think. When there is new snow or deep snow, I generally opt for skiing over climbing. This is most of the time when the avalanche hazard is rated "moderate" or above. For winter technical climbing, I usually look for a period of time where the snow is set up and the avalanche hazard is minimal. Further, the terrain I want to ski is almost exclusively prime avalanche terrain.

To Erden's explanation, I would add that if you have your biners both oriented the same way on your draws, you will not end up with one of the gates facing the rock when you use it in a corner. One of my partnes insists on racking all his draws with the gates opposite of each other - that's how he keeps it consistent - but I think it is better to keep them facing the same way as Erden describes.

Derivative, but rocking: Outshined, and several other cuts from Badmotorfinger. Soundgarten didn't do a damned thing that Led Zeppelin didn't do twenty years earlier, but who's complaining? I've got an audioslave CD, but who else is doing the heavy metal thing with that kind of vigor right now? (By the way, don't miss the Melvins next week if you want to bang your head!)

Yeah, but was the song about a Hurricane? (By the way, it makes you wonder if they are wearing insulating shoes or something, doesn't it? All that power, and they're jumping up and down in piles of cords and stuff, in the rain...)

Hurricane, during the encore at Gorge: all hell broke loose from the sky and sheets of water were blowing accross the stage, and you could see water splashing up off the drums!

Cortez the Killer is a great song, but what about TAD. Nobody's talking about TAD!!!!! Jack Pepsi in a small club

Mitch Ryder kicks ass. You gotta learn some respect, Mr. ChucK! Do you hate Jimi Hendrix, too? Sheesh.

I'm sympathetic to your argument there, RobBob: much of what is currently hot is highly derivative. However, there's been some kick ass derivitave music, that's for sure! I have a historical correction, though: Rap is 30 years old. The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron were doing it in the early '70's although it came into its own as a new genre with GrandMasterFlash about 1980 or so.