mattp

I have had only limited success cleaning my Aliens. Is there some trick to this? I stick them in soapy water and shake and activate the cams -- what else should I try? (Off topic, but it is my impression that Metolius cams don't get bunged up as fast - do others agree?)

I was talking to an atmospheric scientist who said, last week, that about 95% of those who are actually knowledgeable about the issues agree that human-induced global warming is real. He pointed out that there remain those 5% who say we don't have conclusive proof, and this is why the industry shills, as you call them, are able to play their trumpets so loudly and why they can get away with it. My "source" is not an expert on global warming, but he's involved in a closely related field and is certainly one who I would expect to have an informed opinion on this issue.

That's kind of the point I made back on page one, Ashw. Merv and Pope suggest it is a travesty for someone to have done such a dispicable thing to the wilderness of Alpental valley, but I can barely think of a more appropriate place in the entire state. Yes, it would be better if the route did not stand right above an access route where someone like Merve is going to take offense, and Pope is correct that there are probably similar opportunities for this kind of climb elsewhere. However, the Source Lake area or a similar location up on Stevens Pass or up near the Mount Baker ski area are exactly the place where we go looking for easy access winter climbing and where 99% of the recreational users do not expect a wilderness experience. The Rap Wall is not in a legally designated Wilderness or a National Park or, as far as I know, an environmentally sensitive area. It is not a location where I would expect there to be significant user-conflicts or where I can immediately forsee other management issues.

Joseph, we're talking about style here. It sounds as if you like to dial in your "systems" with a partner and there is nothing wrong with that (a lot right, actually), but yours is not the only safe or proper approach to climbing. I have climbed with a German partner who insisted on using twin ropes (not double) for a variety of rock climbs and alpine rock routes, and exclusively the munter belay; to make him comfortable, I did the same. I once climbed with and Australian I'd never met before, and let me tell you: he had some funny ideas about Alpine ice climbing but I didn't think he was unsafe. Over the years, I've teamed up with people who I've never met before, spent zero time working out belay commands and racking methods, and even done some climbs with improper equipment. I've never gone in for speed climbing, but that too is a matter of style and there are other ways to enjoy this world. I don't think I've made a career of being dangerously unsafe but maybe I'm just lucky.

In my mind, it is the end result that matters much more than whether the bolts were put in on lead or hang. When I'm climbing a line I personally don't care all that much what the experience of some guy 10 years ago was like. Maybe it is selfish of me, but I usually focus on whether the route follows an interesting line and what the climbing is like, along with whether it may be over bolted or a squeeze job or otherwise unaesthetic or maybe scary or dangerous. These things affect my experience as a climber more than a footnote in the guidebook that may tell about the first ascent. If Ghost Dog or whatever it is turns out to be regarded as an enjoyable or exciting or great climb, I will most likely commend the vision that went into it either way.

For the initial pass, a 4" broad knife gets much of the lichen off and it also works well for carving the dirt and moss out of cracks, too. (I think you're likely to find dirt in cracks, even high on some alpine route, but maybe you have some unique rock type that doesn't have any.) The broad knife, your nut pick, and a fairly small wire brush will do pretty well for what you're describing.

Here's Lucky's shot of the crew:

Does the good single malt come in "travellers?"

That's crap and I believe you know it, Merv. In starting your thread as you did, you KNEW what kind of reaction you were going to get because this would be the 159th time you have set out to make the same point in the same snide tone and gotten the same response. And then, at every turn of the "discussion," you did pretty much all you could to invite more invective. Yes, the overall tenor of the thread has been obnoxious, but you set out to stir the shit and now you're crying "poor me" because it stinks.

Anybody carrying around any of the current compact digital cameras? Sony makes one (W-1) that fires up instantly and has a real nice monitor, but some reviews suggest it may not be durable and may not produce sharp images; the Canon digital Elph has proven reliable, but it is frustratingly slow to start up; Pentax makes one that is water-resistant, but many others pack more features into a smaller package; a few are really really small ...

Fox, I was referring to your "you know better than I do" remark. Anyway, Beckey was the only game in town back in the days of yore -- and he recommended a more direct approach to the lower part of the climb. Selected Climbs came out in 1993. Your picture of the climbing up on the Fin reminded me of just how cool that upper part of the climb was. We didn't have much trouble with the route-finding up there, but I thought the lower part -- like so many other routes in the area -- had a lot of mediocre climbing on it and we did wonder if we were "on route" on some of the lower pitches. I thought the off width was not as hard or scary as most people fear when they read "5.9 off width," do you agree? We had a #11 hex as our biggest piece, and I had to run it out a bit, but I didn't get the sense I was likely to fall out of the crack.

Fox, I asked a sincere question. I didn't have "the book" at work yesterday, and I don't think it had been published when I climbed Backbone. Now that I look at it, I see that Nelson recommends avoiding the lower part of the ridge and, looking at Kearney's book, it looks as if he agrees. Having climbed that lower portion of the route, so do I. With Jim Nelson recommending the avoidance, I am sure it has indeed become standard.

Last year: Year before:

Good liquor is not for mixing. The main reason they invented coctails was to cover the taste of lousy prohibiiton era black-market spirits.

We're arguing only with ourselves here -- on the issue of these draws. There has not been one poster to write that he should have left them there this long -- and several have said it is poor form. It has become established practice at lots of climbing areas, though. Is it simply the passage of time that offends us, or are we on this bulletin board a breed apart from our peers?

If you show up on Friday or Saturday night, we'll all be wearing helmets with our names written on the front. Don't forget yours.

Tim L left out a climbing area that I used to visit and which I thought was great. A few hours northeast of Toronto, north of Kingston New York, is Bon Echo Provincial Park. This has climbs up to about 400 feet high, on metamorphosed rock that rises right out of the lake. There used to be a Canadian Alpine Club hut on the lake, and you rented motorboats to reach the bottom of the routes. On some climbs, we used to rappel back to the boat. It was FUN! but tended toward being scary. I bet it hasn't been developed as a sport climbing area. Winnepeg is the middle of nowhere, but the north shore of Lake Superior, a couple hundred miles east, has good climbing on the Canadian Shield rock - some pseudo-granite or metamorphosed rock up to a couple hundred feet high. Carolyn on this site climbs there some. A half day's drive southwest of Winnepeg is Devil's Tower. Awesome!

I am not aware if it being an issue. There could be a watershed rule or something, though.

Has that zig zag avoidance of the lower portion of the route become the standard way to do this climb these days? I read an earlier route report that described the off-width as the first or second pitch of technical climbing and I wondered about this because when I climbed this route we did some tough (and not particularly aesthetic) climbing on the lower part of the ridge that you guys avoided. From what I recall, your route looks like the way to go.

Dru, most of the trail lies outside the contour. I don't recall which contour it is or what the elevation at the base of the route actually is. User-built trails and other similar unplanned and unregulated development raise a number of issues for the Forest Service.

Again, you are incorrect. The boundary in that location runs along a contour line, and the route is clearly located above that contour. The USGS map incorrectly shows the boundary to run along section lines, but in fact there is no question whether the route is in or out of the wilderness. The Forest Service did not raise the issue. They are doing their best to respond to it, and they will enforce their regulations. That is called doing their job - not justifying it. I'm with you about how the clumsy government bureaucracy often seems to be self-serving and driven by self interest and etc -- but I haven't see it in this case and not on this particular issue.

Dru, you are incorrect about Infinite Bliss. The Forest Service personnel in no way have sought to inflate the issue and I have seen absolutely no effort on their part to try to "justify their job." In the Middle Fork, they have plenty to do. I don't know the history of the City of Rocks closure, but my guess is that the issue did not start with some dim bulb with a government job. I am sure there are people who head out there to see a historic landmark and don't want to see climbers and rappel anchors all over it. Is the closure necessary or warranted? I don't know. Can we live with it? Probably so.

Dru, the land managers I have spoken with have expressed little concern for bolts per se, but they do fear user conflicts and management issues associated with some sport climbing -- so in that respect I think you are right that they are more likely to take issue with a sport climb being sited right next to a trail than is a tourist. Is that a sign of their "justifying ther job" or is it a sign of their "doing their job?" Merv, I may agree with you. I don't recommend that someone add sport routes at an existing trad crag, if that is what you are saying.

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