pope

quote: Originally posted by Jens: I was told that the polished rock that makes up the prevously mentioned crisco slab came from deep underwater near where I used to lifeguard-- Lake Spanaway. I didn't hear that, but I'll bet you're right!

Nice TR Faust. For those of you who haven't visited SPIRE (Spanaway Park Ice & Rock Education), Crisco Slab (the West Face) offers the greasiest bouldering north of Camp IV. It features vertical basalt river rocks so polished you can see your reflection, especially when a younger member of the indigenous species urinates down it. You may catch SPIRE at its finest if you visit soon: it currently features a visibly thick coat of male spores (from the local forest). Only verglas offers more tenuous climbing. [ 05-01-2002, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: pope ]

quote: Originally posted by max: quote:Originally posted by Crackbolter: It does not matter how slow you go, as long as you don't stop. - Confucius Confusius must not have known about convergent integrals. Sorry, every once in a while a geek's gotta' geek-out. Yes, but twice in a night? Now I have a mathematical question for you! Please simplify sin(x)/n. Hint: the solution is more frequently found by freshmen than seniors.

quote: Originally posted by DavidW: Probably the best climbing pants I ever had was a $1.75 pair of baseball pants from some thrift store. They were made of bullet-proof fabric, could be pushed up over the knee or down to about mid-calf, had big pockets, were stretchy and lasted me about 4 seasons (with some repair needed toward the last indecent days) The best belay parka I ever bought came from JC Penny. It had buttons so you could belay out of it, and it cost about $29.

Hear about the body recovered last night? It was found in the tub, floating in milk and strawberries. Obviously the work of a cereal killer.

quote: Originally posted by Uncle Tricky: As of last fall, I was surprised to find two new bolts installed basically alongside two old bolts on the second pitch of Canary. I'm not sure how many bolts the FAs put in, but I was surprised to find what appeared to be a sloppy upgrade job (not pulling the bolts you're replacing) on such a classic. Haven't done the second pitch recently, but I remember something like what you describe, and I remember the bolt(s) being placed on obviously convex (read "weak") features. Would a solution be to install 1/2" bolts in the old holes? Maybe remove the "upgrade" bolts? I've been told you can drill out an old snapped-off 1/4" jobber and put a 1/2" bolt, but I ain't never tried it.

quote: Originally posted by allison: 1. I am learning to enjoy something the KTK and others refer to as "French Technique." It's so funny to hear trad climbers dissing on the trashy ethics of sport climbers and yet this French thing is acceptable.... 2. I invented a move called the "snatch jam" 3. I got in trouble at work for saying "while you're down there" to a male co-worker who was working on his knees in front of me. The guy wasn't mad, but another guy claimed he was offended because I could say that and he couldn't. Goodnes me! Somebody get a bar of soap! Seriously, does this guy think that only females can get away with it because only females can get away with it, or is it that he's not willing to act on his "convictions"? I agree that the work environment is uncomfortably tense when you can't joke relatively privately with somebody for fear that somebody sensitive will walk around the corner.

And while I'm at it..... Forgive me for I have sinned. I once lost my wallet...as best I can tell, it fell out the window of a car while I was performing a rude (and contorted) gesture. Forgive me for I have sinned. I have visited the Julie Andrews site that Dwayner linked in here a few months ago. Twice. The hills are alive.... Forgive me for I have sinned. I wore a dress in public (after my football team went undefeated). And I liked it....I mean, going undefeated.

If you can't get it, it's fixed. If you can, it's booty. Need some quick-draws?

It's true. Some people rap bolt with seasoned judgement and restraint, and they produce good results. I still think that the common application of rap bolting has been bad for the sport and that the ease with which a novice can drill on rap, together with the "rock pioneer" status that they hope to achieve for these shitty projects, has transformed many of our cliffs into sissified outdoor gyms. I'm not hiding anything, and I'm not embarassed about anything. The protection bolts I've placed (three in 18 years) in the Icicle provide an example of an approach to bolting which, if adopted widely, would retard the pace of bolting while still allowing for development of bolted routes. What's the problem?

quote: Originally posted by CAMAZONIA: I'm cop'in to never reading all of pope's 1000 word posts Sorry man. Just revealing the naked truth about Pope, as I had been encouraged to do. And now for another confession: I've never climbed anything with a watermelon tied to my ass.

Q. What do you call a sore on a policeman's foot? A. Corn on the cop.

quote: Originally posted by trask: Jesus, Pope zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz It was either write that or deal with the charge that I'm a hypocrite. Hey Trask: HUG ME UPSIDE DOWN! [ 04-26-2002, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: pope ]

At least a couple of you have expressed the idea that Pope needs to check in here. The issue is this: POPE HAS PLACED BOLTS IN THE ICICLE!!!!!! One cc.commie contacted me through a PM to humorously suggest that "Pope has left a few turds of his own." Another member of the board discussed with Dwayner that he thought Pope's failure to acknowledge these bolts was disengenuous. Irritated that this had been discussed in my absence, I have since contacted this person in an attempt to better understand his charges. What follows is a defense of my character, given that I vocally oppose certain types of bolting, and given that at least two of you feel this is at least a little hypocritical. IF YOU DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT MY CHARACTER, PLEASE FIND ANOTHER TOPIC THAT IS WORTH YOUR WHILE. About ten years ago, in response to discussions I had with some rap bolters who insisted that solid, 3/8" bolts could not be thoughtfully placed on the lead, I did a 2-bolt variation to a climb on Secret Dome (the variation is called FROMUNDA CHEESE, I can't remember the name of the route to which it is a variant start). The bolts are solid, they are 3/8", and the cleaning/hand-drilled bolting was accomplished on the lead. I had to do the crux move without the second bolt, and when I had reached a jug, I hooked it and climbed down my aider to the spot where I knew the 2nd bolt would be best positioned for the crux. The variation follows a natural, arching feature and the climbing is exhilarating and steep at 5.11 or so. At one point, you can reach left to grab a jug of another route, but this was avoided on the 1st ascent. I have received positive reviews from the handful of those I know to have climbed the route. The problem: it is a variation, and so the climbing is within about ten lateral feet of another route. At the time, I thought that as the bolts were established on lead, it was the only legitimate route on the wall. I still feel this way, although I've considered chopping it on a couple of occasions. Compared to the grid-bolted crap you've heard me bitch about, this route is not really "squeezed in", and it is certainly adventurous. However, it doesn't need to be there. Shoot me a PM or whatever if you're offended by it, and I'll be happy to erase it. Another route, which was mostly my buddy's idea, follows cracks and ramps to a crux face move over to another crack, just right of Carnival Crack. Get the message? This is a crack climb. It provides access to the Carnival Crack ledge where excellent top-roping is to be found. The route we did is 5.9+ or 5.10, and it's crux is protected by a single bolt. The 3/8" hole I hand-drilled didn't accomodate the Fixe bolts (advertised as 3/8"). We had borrowed a roto hammer to install a top anchor, as Jim Phillips had suggested that we should use 1/2" bolts. Our solution to the protection bolt difficulties was to rap down (I didn't feel comfortable power drilling from the stance) and drill the hole to 1/2" size. The result is fun crack climb with one airy, steep face move protected by a bomber bolt, a bolt which was placed on rap. Having said this, I have been asked to acknowledge that rap bolting can (under special circumstances, performed by the right people) be thoughtful and have good results. I agree, and I think the route we did is a good result of rap bolting (but not a great route). I should clarify that when I criticize rap bolting, I have in mind some of the messy, sissified, grid-bolted areas we have all encountered, and for which many of us have objections. I am not a moral authority on ethics, and I have started very few threads that deal with the issue. I am, however, very vocal about the general degradation of a once great sport. Rap bolting is at the heart of this degredation, because many, many climbers who choose to rap bolt do so in such a way that after a few years, each cliff they visit is transormed into so many nearly indistinguishable bolt trails. I have been a victim of my emotions when these discussions surface. I don't know what seems more ridiculous to me, the notion that I've intended to keep these routes secret, or the belief that not advertising my drilling of these bolts is disengenuous. One of these routes is in the Leavenworth guide. If you read what I've been promoting on the message board, you'll see that the three protection bolts I've drilled in the Icicle are not among the type of bolting that I've criticized (drilling where natural pro is available, drilling additional bolts on routes that have been previously led or TR'd, drilling face climbs which result in heavily bolted sport routes at a basically clean cliff that has mostly only traditional routes, etc). You can find posts, if you're interested, in which I've allowed that sport climbing can be a lot of fun and that at steep, chossy cliffs, it seems pretty harmless. You can find posts in which I've suggested that one or two bolts to protect blank sections on a route that mostly protects with available cracks is acceptable. Damn right I'm vocal about these issues, but mostly I respond to comments in a thread I didn't start. Again, there is no intent to establish myself as the moral authority on bolting. There you have it. Pope's three bolts in the Icicle. And if you read all of this........jeeeesh! GET A LIFE!

quote: Originally posted by mattp: Alex- How about heather? Some of those alp slopes can be class four, for sure. To get a belay or protection point on heather, use a long sling and thread it through a couple of whistle pig tunnels, kind of like one of those new-fangled V-thread ice anchors.

quote: Originally posted by Crackbolter: Pope said: "As an aside, have any of ya'll ever been on bloody fingers - 10A in the city of rocks, twenty feet to the right is a beautiful piece of face climbing put up by Jeff Lowe called New Toy. total of two bolts in 80 feet. Nobody climbs it - nobody, and why - it is too damn dangerous and a fall will kill ya, so I ask - has the first ascensionist done the climbing world justice - what gives him the right to dictate the "off limits - unless you have a death wish" mentality? Unfair and sad - on public land and a scarce resource as it is - and totally selfish IMHO - but who am I to say it...." Pope don't say that. Sir Donald say that. quote: Originally posted by Crackbolter: I personally have climbed enough routes to know that at least more than once i've been 20, 30,40 or even as much as 50 feet off the ground and could have easily had a groundfall that was fatal. If you don't like this sort of thing, why have you put yourself in this position more than once? Who among us can't stand at the base of a route like New Toy and, without even putting foot to stone, notice that the path ahead is dangerous? Who among us would head up a route like that expecting an experience similar to an afternoon at Ronald McDonald playland? Who among us is not capable of finding tens or hundreds of heavily bolted routes within walking distance of New Toy? Routes like New Toy, which are often marked in the guide with skulls and such, will occasionally spit people off, and there will be injuries. And if the hazards were insidious, I'd recommend bolting every one of these routes. The reality is that each of us has a choice to make, and the choice is made with plenty of information. Long live choice.

Bolts allow the Mounties to function on the S. Ridge....and a wheel-chair ramp would allow my grandma access....and if we just get some heavy equipment up there, we could level it and do some kind of REI catalogue photo shoot/lawn darts tournament. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeh!

This is all too embarassing, and I'm appreciative of your consideration, but President? I don't think my life would survive the scrutiny of the public eye. I would prefer to "dangle my Chad" in private.

Most excellent! I never thought it was possible, but you've improved on the original Joe's Garage! Bravo!

quote: Originally posted by Colin: Those big, Metolius bolts are placed right next to cracks! I think that this is perfectly acceptable. Just imagine how much more severe those Mountaineer Clusterfucks would be if every party on that very popular route had to build their own belay/rap anchors. I doubt that they ruin anyone's wilderness experience, for if you wanted wilderness you wouldn't be on the South Ridge of Ingall's anyway. Gee Colin, while your mind is still young and flexible, please reconsider what you're promoting (unless you're joking). Tolerating these kinds of adaptations is problematic not only because it becomes contagious, but also because when we artificially adapt the mountains to improve access/ease the difficulties, it becomes difficult to distinguish between which modifications are acceptable and which are not. Please read the recently referenced ethical discussions over routes at Smith Rock, where creating holds is in the middle of the debate. Seems ridiculous, but once you accept some modifications, how do you rationally forbid others? Chipping and other techniques for creating holds can be justified by many of the same arguments (if you accept them) that get flung around on this message board in support of bolting. Finally, let's suppose the route you describe (or the one on Lundin) weren't sanitized with goofy bolts. Would some of the Mounties then decide that climbing is too serious a game? Would their rosters shrink when they find out that climbing is actually demanding? Damn! [ 04-23-2002, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: pope ]

quote: Originally posted by Sir Donald: As an aside, have any of ya'll ever been on bloody fingers - 10A in the city of rocks, twenty feet to the right is a beautiful piece of face climbing put up by Jeff Lowe called New Toy. total of two bolts in 80 feet. Nobody climbs it - nobody, and why - it is too damn dangerous and a fall will kill ya, so I ask - has the first ascensionist done the climbing world justice - what gives him the right to dictate the "off limits - unless you have a death wish" mentality? Unfair and sad - on public land and a scarce resource as it is - and totally selfish IMHO - but who am I to say it.... I respect your opinion about that route, and I'm not trying to sound like a tough guy/trad man or whatever. Believe it or not, I remember the route well. It is probably one of the few bolted climbs I did (in four trips to the City of Rocks) that I do remember. Oddly enough, keeping my thing together on a climb like gives me a satisfaction that I can't find on the typical routes on Parking Lot Rock. These days, super-safe and heavily bolted routes are abundant. They are the norm. To echo an idea that MattP has brought up a couple of times, the value of an area, or of a particular type of route, is inversely proportional to is abundance. I think leaving Jeff Lowe's route in its "classic" status provides a challenge (and also a sort of interactive history lesson) that is increasingly more difficult to find. Please, let's keep a few of these routes in the mix (although replacing the old bolts with 1/2" bolts, in the original holes, is both acceptable and encouraged).

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: That was yours? I feel so used. Dwayner's got too much love for monogamy. Take a number. The pace of his romantic life is so frantic...let's just say he would do well to install a revolving door.

quote: Originally posted by erik: WHO IS THIS scott stanton guy???? I've met the guy, done a little TR'ing with him at Index. He's a good guy, motivated and friendly. And he's a big dude (I'll bet he could work a crowbar). Sounds like a good project....what more do we need to know about it?

quote: Originally posted by Hayduke: quote:Originally posted by specialed: The Elysian's for delusional yuppies word. Let's go to the Alki. Mmm. Cheap burgers. Hayduke lives!

quote: Originally posted by CraigA: I guess I just felt like the whole story took a little long to set up. But I'd still give it 4-stars Craig I only remember waiting too long for George's (Brenda Venus) dazzling display of mammalian perfection, to which I had been previously alerted. Now thank God for that frame-by-frame advance feature on my VCR's remote. Those aren't to be missed. Hotcha! As for the rest of the movie, what a splendid synthesis of smart-alecky dialogue with manly adventure. Must say that Gregory Walcott gives a stellar performance, and the mysterious beauty of Dragon's courier (Vonetta McGee) inspired one of my more experimental romantic episodes.