pope

quote: Originally posted by Matt: Pope: I have heard you say you don't do sport climbs. I was wondering if you tried the Urban Bypass variation to Dreamer? Some might call it a sport climb-- it is all bolts and they are placed very close together. What did you think? I didn't get a very good look at it so I don't know. I will say (again), there are certainly applications of bolting that seem acceptable. I'm impressed with the work MattP and others have done on routes like Safe Sex, and even some of the bolts that have been reportedly added to Dreamer seem to make sense. Not all of the adventure has been squeezed out of it; in fact, it still presents some run-out, challenging climbing, and we can only hope it maintains this flavor. Regarding sport climbs, don't you think that having ten new, 80-foot sport pitches along the base of Green Giant Buttress would kind of degrade the place?

quote: Originally posted by Juan: In other words, you climbed Dreamer. Matt said you guys had fun. Way to go. =;-) Or I could have written something like: "We climbed dreamer, using ropes and such, and we struggled mightily, at times having not so much as a fingernail purchase on that flint-hard, flawless granite. The conditions, theys was good." However, I think you'll agree that the supporting details of this monumental adventure are too important to be omitted.

Trip Report: Darrington 2002 Part One: Prologue to a Dream(er). Late last Friday night, Pope realized that he'd left his alarm clock over at the college, and he was supposed to meet Dwayner at 5 a.m. backwards of the REI. With little sleep and ample beer in his veins, there was no way he was going to make the early morning appointment without an alarm clock, unless... At 1 a.m. Saturday, Pope cruised into the dark lot, parked his subcompact behind the Federal Way REI and pulled his sleeping bag over his head. Maybe twenty minutes passed before bright lights shone through the car window, and an authoritative voice informed him that he wouldn't be allowed to sleep there. The security cop suggested that Pope should cross the street and check in at the Marriott. "Yeah, sure buddy. That's just what I'll do. Thanks for being so helpful," replied Pope. Rent-a-cop pulled away, and Pope went back to sleep. Within minutes, a car screeched to a halt, and a flashlight banged against my window. Mr. Security Cop again explained that there would be no overnighting in that parking lot. "I'm not moving. You'll just have to ignore me. I'll be gone at 5 a.m. Do I look like a thief, a needle junkie or a sport climber?" asked Pope. "You won't sleep much with this flashlight poking in your face all night," he responded. Then he threatened to call his superior. "Your superior? Well that doesn't narrow the field much now does it?" Pope retorted. Pope shrugged, and the security cop followed through with his threat. The dispatch apparently told him to quit messin' wid da Pope, and that was the end of the harassment for a while until he returned to give Pope a wake-up call the next morning, and to explain that he didn't like making exceptions to the rules. "This lot's got the lowest crime rate in Federal Way, which if you didn't notice, isn't the safest place. This lot is safe because I'm doing my job, and I don't mind being "the bad-assed security guy" if that's what it takes to do the job." Just then, Pope noticed that the letters T-H-U-G were tattooed across the four fingers of Rent-a-Cop's right hand. Pope was not intimidated and once again went back to sleep until Dwayner arrived "right on time" with his usual line, "I thought you meant that you wanted me to leave MY HOUSE at 5 AM!" He suggested that we immediately find a pay phone and call Big Lou to report the security guard for his attempts to impede our pursuit of big wall excellence. Part II: The Climb With some trepidation, I left the fate of my car in the hands of Rent-A-Thug, hoping that it would still be there on my return with its tires unslashed and no new obscene grafitti plastered on its win-dough! Besides, the Dwayner-mobile has all of the comforts of home, especially after a brief stop for a damn Egg-A-Muff, Bacon Egga McBiscuit, with all the trimmins. And a large coffee to go please. Dwayner referred to the delightful young lady who took our money as a "behemoth". It wasn't true, she was HOT!. Dwayner fell asleep at the wheel twice on the way to the park 'n ride lot in Seattle; I woke him up by pouring a cup of steaming coffee on a sensitive part of his anatomy located in his crotch. The caffeine must have taken its effect because he woke yelling. "You've just managed to scald 80% of my epidermis!" Soon enough, we reached the park 'n ride where we met the world famous Mattp and his buddy Greg. In the car on the way over, me and Dwayner discussed whether it would be appropriate to greet Greg, who neither of us knew, as "Sparky". The discussion was as hot as the coffee in Dwayner's crotch but we ultimately decided that it would be o.k. When we did meet Greg, Dwayner clammed up and just shook his hand, sans the "Sparky". We then drove to Darrington. Greg had some music going with this song that went, "All I want to do, is have some fun..." Pope looked at Dwayner and he looked at Pope and they gave each other a high-five. Then they climbed Dreamer on Green Giant Buttress. On the way home, we stopped at some place....it was dark so we didn't knows where we be, but Greg pulled over and we bought chips and adult beverages. Dwayner also bought a Moon Pie and I think it hurt his feelings when no-one else would sample the wretched thing. We wanted to wash the big wall off our hands but a girl went into the bathroom and didn't come out for a good long time. One can only speculate........but when she finally left, it smelled like someone had sprayed a complete canister of floral scented RAID to cover up a mysterious and devious odor. I fidgeted nervously all the way back wondering if my car would still be parked. You know, you CAN trust them guys in the green vest at the REI because the pope-mobile was waiting and intact, in fact, it looked as if it had been waxed and polished.

Feck, do the Beckey Route. [ 07-09-2002, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: pope ]

Well, if you don't have a "Fourth of July", then your calendar must be shorter!

quote: Originally posted by Dru: We have a July 4, but not any Fourth of July. We also have a 4:20 every day And has this caused your breasts to protrude?

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Hey pope, haven't you finished smoking that ounce of loser yet? Maybe you should head up to Muir Hut. Dru, do you guys have a "Fourth of July" up in the Great White North, eh?

Went to REI today hoping to find PP but wasn't so lucky. On the other hand, they had a dividend check for me that had never been sent, and so I got my chalk/webbing for free plus cash back. You see, it always pays to stop in and say "Hello" to the friendly folks in the multi-pocketed, green vests. Dwayner, you find some leg loops?

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Pope will you have sent [VIKTOR] a note with your concerns? I doubt it. Sad. Sad. Sad. WE HAVE DISCUSSED THE ISSUE THROUGH PM'S, E-MAILS AND SUCH. HE'S A GOOD GUY WHO CAN CARRY ON A DISCUSSION WITHOUT MAKING ENORMOUS ASSUMPTIONS (LIKE THE ONE YOU JUST MADE) AND CONSTANTLY EXPRESSING THE DESIRE TO HUG EVERYBODY.

Oh, and you want a hug? HUG ME UPSIDE DOWN! For one who criticizes grandiose ranting, you certainly have contributed to this thread an Oprah-sized helping of whiny drivel.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: ....it should be noted that Matt Kerns is an all around good guy and ordinarily I would be proud to be confused with him. PP In every case, you should be proud to be confused for Matt Kerns. I know the guy well, and if he be you, then your on-line demeanor reveals only the ass-end of your character.

quote: Originally posted by JayB: quote:Originally posted by pope: I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff. This, however, is progress. Progress? It is entirely consistent with what I've been saying all along. Thanks for paying attention. I wish to revise my theory about your inane comments: your learning disability is either related to difficulty with reading comprehension or attention span limitations. You seem to read what you want to see, as opposed to what's on the screen.

quote: Originally posted by JayB: Pope/Dwayner: Dudes...I was just trying to say that extremists tend to undermine the causes they hope to advance by alienating most of the people who might support them. Judging by your comments it seems clear that both of you take pride in the fact that you've always given climbing gyms and sport crags a wide berth. Dude, you've obviously learned reading comprehension from Lambone, or maybe you've been taking logic lessons from Peter Pounder. How else may one explain the way you seem to have pulled that assertion out of your arse? My comments on gym climbing have been mostly positive. In fact, I was a member of a climbing gym for years, and I enjoyed the fitness and (occasionally) the social exchanges. Checking out the exotic talent made the exorbitant membership fees worth the price. I see little harm in gym climbing, or even sport climbing when it's confined to a chossy cliff. To bad it never works out that way.

"Cleaning up" at the crags can and does include a wide variety of activities and objectives, but I would say they all involve the removal of trash. Turns out, last time I devoted six hours of my time to drive to and from eight hours of rather loosely organized trash removal....let's just say I was looking for the shiny, metalic variety. The point I was making about discussion of bolting next to cracks may be summarized as this: whether one agrees that we're wrestling with this issue or not, I would submit that it's ludicrous that we're even discussing it. That bolting next to cracks occurs in Leavenworth (as has been addressed on this site recently) is disgusting; that climbers then state their opposition seems parallel to declaring disapproval of baby killers, cancer and rust. Gentlemen, if you feel this way about it, buy a crowbar or pickle fork or whatever. Afterall, a good clean-up party is better than any rant, and if you just stop talking and start chopping, Mr. Puget will be left to torture himself with annoying monologues.

quote: Originally posted by JayB: However, until you tone down the rhetoric, attempt to build consensus on this issue through a judicious compromise or two, and/or advocate sensible restraints on bolting instead of an outright ban, the only thing that your ranting will get from the vast majority of climbers that you have effectively alienated from your cause is a good chuckle or a dismissive shrug. Jay, I think consensus is overrated. For an example of what misguided consensus can build, check out the pile called Vantage. I don't wish to nurture tolerance and understanding for the deposition of trashy fixed hardware in the name of facilitating cowardice. The fact is, I can and do enjoy an enormous amount of rock climbing in which I do not rely on unsightly and alien fixed gear, and so if the installation of fixed anchors were banned, it could only improve the crag scene (by thinning out the whirlies). Don't you find it alarming that in this thread climbers are voicing disapproval of bolting next to cracks? Why are we even wrestling with this question? Some things just shouldn't be tolerated. What's next, a discussion on the merits of chipping?

Spain got lucky.

And I take back what I said about your girlfriend. Now tell her to stop calling me!

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Yes, indeed - cos(arccos(y))=y but my formula is cos(90-arccos(y)). My mistake...I was reading your clove-hitched AT formula. quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Simplified as you wish, I believe the force on the AT is Sqrt(2) times the V when x = 0 and reaches a maximum of 1.5 times the load on the V (using your sling) when x = 12 inches. Nice work, this is what I was looking for! BTW, Iron Mike Tyson took a beating. Yawn.

OK, guys, I'm going to the neighbors to watch the big fight. Tomorrow I'll be in Leavenworth. Solutions presented after 10 pm Sunday night will receive only partial credit. Good luck, and may the force be with you (yuckity yuckity yuck).

BTW, what is this "American Triangle cloved hitched at both connection points"? Anything I can visualize would seem to shorten the sling so dramatically that horizontal forces would become pretty high. Since you enjoy extrapolating the hypothesis, imagine if you just cut ten feet off of your rope and used that for a sling!

Terminal, Not to be an asshole, but before you try to find "the problem with the problem" (suggesting the question is invalid since I foggot to account for the amount of webbing used in wrapping half way around a 'biner, etc.), you might want to check your mathematics. For example, the V-sling equation you've given could be written as Lb/(Lr/2)=[(24-x)/2]/(x/2), when you recall that cos(Arccos(y))=y, etc. Examine this proportion and then refer to the similar triangles in your diagram. I think you'll see that you're hot on the trail of the solution, but not quite there. Don't quit (quitting becomes a habit that is difficult to quit). The American Triangle is several degrees more complicated. For simplicity sake, just assume that the webbing used in wrapping around a biner is negligible and that you're slipping the webbing over cold shuts, etc. Don't get bogged down in the messy details until you get the big picture. My solution shows the American Triangle always applying slightly higher forces on each bolt (although never as high as 200% of what the V-sling system does for a given value of X). Also, I'm thinking of a 24-inch sling as being a loop that is 24 inches when you stretch it between your fingers (would be 48 inches if you cut the loop and stretched it out). For the V-system, I came up with f=(0.5F)(12)/sqrt[144-(x/2)^2)], where f=the magnitude of the force applied to the bolt and F=weight of your fat girlfriend. I'll release the American Triangle calculation after you scream, "Uncle!"

quote: Originally posted by Necronomicon: Could you provide a free-body diagram? Are we to use the metric system? Can you provide a load value? Are you talking about the MAGNITUDE of the RESULTANT force on each bolt, the HORIZONTAL vector component, or the VERTICAL vector component? Let F1 symbolize the magnitude of the resultant force on either bolt in the American Triangle. The solution is independent of the type of units you use for force, and it is independent of the load applied at the power point, although if you wish, you may assume a 500 pound load is applied. BTW, the vertical component of force on each bolt is always half the load at the power point, in either system. Let me see what I can do about a diagram. Trask, that's some find video...you are trying to dislodge a cocaine booger?

quote: Originally posted by Necronomicon: Force is a vector quantity, and as such, requires a direction. Please restate question 2 so that it makes sense. Try this for help... http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/vectors/U3L3b.html OK, wiseacre, we're looking for the value of X (bolt separation) that makes the ratio of MAGNITUDES of F1 to F2 highest. That is, F1, it turns out, always has a magnitude higher than F2 (which answers the first question), making the American Triangle a poor choice for all values of X. In question 2, you'll need to write F1's magnitude as a function of X. Do the same with F2, then form the ratio of magnitudes F1/F2 as a function of X. Study this function for a maximum, then report. In essence, there is a bolt separation X for which choosing the American Triangle is not only the wrong choice, the degree to which it is a poorer choice is highest. Want a hint? OK: 0<X<24. No more hints.

quote: Originally posted by trask: Bong-up dude! One more outburst like that and you'll be explaining your insolence and piss-poor attitude to the Headmaster!

OK, geeks, here's a question that can be answered by an average student of high school physics: You're rigging a rappel off of two questionable bolts, which are separated laterally by a distance of X and which are level with each other vertically. You have only one 24-inch sewn sling. You want to connect to these bolts in a way that will minimize the force on each one. 1. Is the American Triangle always better than using a load-equalizing "V"? Does the answer depend on the separation X? 2. Suppose that for some separation X, the force on a bolt in the American triangle is F1, but the force on a bolt in the "V" system is F2. For what value of X is the ratio of F1 to F2 highest? What is the ratio in this case?