pope

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: I went climbing with someone once and all they would talk about was how full of idiots this site was! Good thing PP was going incognito that day! I'm thinking that guy was in on your secret. BTW, I've got somebody working undercover to discover the man behind the mask. Watch your flank!

Most of the time, when belaying a leader, your belay will be dynamic which ever way you choose to rig it. If you belay off your harness directly, you will almost always be lifted before the belay anchor ever gets loaded. If you belay off your harness but direct the rope through the belay anchors, you will be pulled in and/or up. If you belay directly off a typical fixed belay, the anchor won't take any force until the 'biners and slings are pulled up (maybe a couple of feet). By that time, you've already absorbed some of the energy with your arms. When the leader steps off the ledge, in those first few feet before he gets in gear, there is extreme danger that high impact forces would be applied directly to the belay anchor since very little rope is in the system to absorb energy. If that belay fails you're both dead. In this case it is better to try to absorb some of the fall with your leg/butt muscles (i.e., a standing or sitting belay) even if you get jerked off your stance. This is why I WILL NOT BELAY OFF THE ANCHOR OR EVEN DIRECT THE ROPE THROUGH THE BELAY until the leader has placed a good piece (a "frank nut").

Oh, and always put a "Frank nut" in the first eight feet after leaving the belay.

Hang on harder. Retreat before you get in over your head. Put in more gear than you think is necessary and never push to the point of being required to trust it. Don't guide.

quote: Originally posted by Mr. Chips: i think anyone can get the mental picture of what happened, why dwell on the matter. ya, perhaps to get some information about slipshod equipment or something, let it go, a person died and you are blindly pointing fingers and undoubtedly making some people upset or anxious, and hey australopithocus, what is to speculate about the outcome?! I didn't want to come out and say it, but Mr. Chips has asked an important question. I suspect we will never know whether the cams were placed well. Why should we dwell on it? I've had cams (which I knew weren't ideally placed) slip and then catch during a fall, and they exhibited some deformation upon inspection. Deformation is not evidence (in my opinion) that the cams were placed appropriately, and given the experience level the victim had with gear leads, I would suggest that it might be less than constructive (and perhaps a little irreverent) to speculate about rope selection and such. However, I understand the need to rationalize, to convince ourselves that the belay chains and protection points we rig are worthy of our trust, that it is reasonable for an experienced climber with modern equipment to push to the point of falling off. And it is amazing that between these episodes of momentary doubt, the wisdom we gain (at such a price), the enhanced awarness of our mortality, seems to soon be forgotten in our quest to climb at higher standards with thinner, lighter ropes and with little or no bivouac gear. Finally, I would like to echo the thoughts of Dwayner when he suggests that this tragedy is doubly sad when we consider that this inspirational adventure climber should pass on at a scruffy cliff in E. Washington. I was disappointed that members of this bulletin board took the opportunity to reply with a personal attack. Classy. [ 10-18-2002, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: pope ]

Yeah, if you're thinking of doing the E Butt on Middle Cathedral in the Valley, go left and do the DNB instead. Longer, a little harder, more commiting and a lot less crowded. Is that "climber's left" or "skier's left"?

"Big Lou" Reed on September Song...that sounds like it's worth checking out! It can't be any worse than Sid Vicious doing "I Did It My Way". I've got a Johnny Hartman CD with a tremendous interpretation of "September Song"...I'd highly recommend it but I can't think of the name of the CD just now and I'm at work.

Here's a great jazz standard to help bring these events and emotions into focus: "September Song" Writer(s): Anderson/Weill Oh, it's a long, long while from May to December But the days grow short when you reach September When the autumn weather turns the leaves to flame One hasn't got time for the waiting game Oh, the days dwindle down to a precious few September, November And these few precious days I'll spend with you These precious days I'll spend with you Congrats MattP, Lambone, et al. [ 09-28-2002, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: pope ]

I think that's a terrible way to measure your progress. You could be climbing better than the guys in your circle, feeling like the Big Man on Campus, and then wake up one day to realize you're just a big turd in a little bowl, that your circle of buddies aren't climbing that hard in the first place. If you climb much at Vantage or Exit 38, this is likely the case. Furthermore, how are you going to know when you're in the top 2%? And if you ever get there, should you be satisfied? How do you know you're giving it your best? The beautiful thing about climbing is that the mountains are always there to meet you at the challenge level you desire. There's always a route harder than you can do, and there's alway a route perfect for your current fitness level and ambition. You pick up a guide book, evaluate your abilities, find a buddy and go. It seems really shallow to worry about what the next guy is doing when there is so much space and wilderness out there in which to PUSH YOURSELF and fight gravity, heavy weather, bee stings, etc. Most of the guys I meet who desire to make the "top 2%" seem to have this need to tell you about it. I've got news for you: they are really dull. Nobody cares about your accomplishments. If they did, they'd ask you about them. Just do it....you wouldn't spend so much time worrying about what other people think of you if you only knew how seldom they do.

Regarding a rap line down from the top o' Dreamer, MattP and I (and others) reteated by descending the Safe Sex route, which has excellent fixed belays and clean rope pulling after each rap. The Safe Sex route apears to be an excellent outing in the ASCENT mode also, although I haven't climbed it. I think I first did Dreamer in about '88 or '89, and the last two pitches of secure 5.6/5.8 knobs (or whatever) were already bolted...a little out of character with the rest of the route, but certainly not offensive.

Just (too) loose!

Pretty sure you were on route? I've climbed with Fletcher a couple of times....did N. Ridge of Molar Tooth with him....and he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to tell you that a turd smells like a rose. Issue 119 is Fletcher's favorite issue of Oprah Magazine.

What did the doc say when he found a thermometer in his coat pocket? "Some asshole's got my pen."

What happened to the lady who backed into the airplane propeller? Disaster.

JUST LOU-Z THE MULLET.

Donna Top-Stop on Tom (from a review in BACKSTEP): I remember the night I fell in love with Tom Stoppard. He seduced me with shimmering language, ideas that revved my mind, and emotions that expanded my heart and left me breathless. Back in the spring of 1995, I sat through a preview performance of his “V10 Mime”, in which, together with the Bandaloops, he introduced to theatre audiences his unique blend of the artistic movements of bouldering classics with loosely structured, Broadway-review/neuvo-classical modern jazz, tap and ballet. Who else could commingle chaos theory and carnal embraces -- his characters positing that sexual attraction may be the one variable Newton left out and contemplating the "action of bodies in heat" -- with such dexterity? He waltzed through time with enviable ease, guiding characters and parallel ideas with a sure hand. The audience sat rapt, working hard to keep up -- afraid to miss a key idea in the fast play of underclings and gastons. Yet “Stoppard’s Mime” offers comfort: "We shed as we pick up," he says of our collective desire to learn and understand, "like travelers who carry everything in their arms, and what we let fall will be picked up by those behind." Stoppard provided no answers, but rather posed question upon question, allowing his characters to hold each one up to the light and watch the insights glance off its facets. "It's wanting to know that makes us matter," said a Stoppard groupie, summarizing his personal quest to understand the way Stoppard’s Midnight Lightening mime seems to defy physics during the mantle sequence. I emerged at the end not at all the way I'd come in. Whole chunks of the audience walked out mid-play, not yet told by critics how to react and frustrated by its challenges. But others picked up the ideas that Stoppard had shed. New York Times theater critic H.C. Esser said "Mime" was "like a dream of levitation: you're instantaneously aloft, soaring, banking, doing loop-the-loops and then, when you think you're about to plummet to earth, swooping to a gentle touchdown of not easily described sweetness and sorrow."

quote: Originally posted by Off White: I wonder what route? It looked nasty up there on Sunday: I was on Dragontail and we had huge winds and a ringside seat of the cloud deck going up and down on Stuart (until it wrapped around us too). The winds were so gusty and variable, it seemed like it would be some hideous flying conditions. It got better later in the afternoon, perhaps thats when they pulled her off. Rescue personnel are pretty damn awesome. That storm took everybody by surprise. My brother and I were installing a metal roof on his house when it hit, and for a moment there, I had my finger on the Big Lou hotline on my cell phone. That wet metal be some slippery biz'. Kind of like rock shoes on steep, wet heather or pine needles. Instead of calling 9-1-1, we completed the task and then devised our own rescue. While my brother slid down the panel on his butt, I stood on the latter and underclinged the barge board, so that if he would have tumbled, he would have crashed into the latter instead of going over, and I could have arrested his fall. [ 10-20-2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: pope ]

Big deal. JayB has a brush with trad climbing. If you use leg loops in conjunction with a swami, you may as well tie into your sport climbing harness. There's very little difference. I use a 2-inch, double-wrap swami with commercial leg loops for my standard harness. The swami is twice as strong as a commercial harness and I replace it every year for about 5 bucks. I also back it up by tying the rope around my chalk-bag strap. I used to tie in with just a swami, even tried a little sport climbing (did my hardest on-sights at Smith with no leg loops), but I've never taken a fall without leg loops. You know, you should go back to bitching about Pope and Dwayner's posts. You're more entertaining in that capacity. Until you lead Thin Fingers with a rack of hexes, you're still a bolt-clipping dweeb.

The connection between Dwayner's offering and unSPORTing CLIMBING is not as tenuous as some of you suggest. If I'm not mistaking, the first photo is Christian Griffith as he appeared in his high school annual. The drivel that follows is the unabridged version of his "sport climbers' manifesto".

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: Typical wishy-washy middle-of-the-road bleeding heart liberal pansy anti-jobs head-up-the-ass environmentalist trust-fund up-tight left-wing democrat black helicopter conspiracy un-American terrorist-sympathizing pinko traitor sellout sport-climbing bolt-clipping rap-bolting half-a-trad not hardcore unalpine snaffle-sucking fancy-beer-drinking Subaru driving yuppie idealist attitude. (posted on behalf of Trask, Greg W, Pope, Dwayno, et. al.) Preach it! Rednecks for wilderness! You forgot some modifiers: WTO-protestin', stink-oil sportin', Big-Lou-disrespectin', boulder-pad-totin', hemp-chalk-bag-sewin'.....

It is possible for anybody to get hurt in any aspect of climbing, it is true. Perhaps your example is enough proof of this existential statement. However, that doesn't make sport climbing bold. BTW, I don't think a runout, bolt-protected pitch is a sport climb.

quote: Originally posted by JayB: quote:Originally posted by pope:

quote: Originally posted by allison: quote:Originally posted by pope: Are we confusing happiness with narcissism? You'll get equal pleasure, adventure and sense of accomplishment from a toprope, without the mess left on a typical sport route. No. Mess? Now don't start on me about how the bolts are a major incursion, or I'll start in on how trails are an even bigger incursion, and how if you are anti-bolts, then you should be anti-trails. I bent Dwayner's ear about this pretty bad a few months back. Oh and for what it's worth, the satisfaction of completing a climb on lead, even on bolts, is different. Don't be too judgemental of the experiences of others. Too many bolts constitute a mess. Too many trails constitute a mess. Too many bolts attract too many climbers, resulting in too many trails and other trash. If you're a rap bolter, build a little adventure into your route. Better yet, drill it on the lead. Bold routes with sparse bolts diminish the popularity/crowding problems which ultimately deny access.

quote: Originally posted by offwidthclimber: oh. i've always been curious... what are the general ratings for some of the classics at the UW rock? coach's crack? off fists crack right of coach's crack? finger crack on the east end slab? any of the other cracks at the rock? They are 5.9/A1 climbs.

quote: Originally posted by Gary Yngve: quote:Originally posted by pope: quote:Originally posted by sexual chocolate: Does everyone know Coach Crack? It's the good hand crack on the water side, furthest east wall. Layback the left side, features only for feet, no crack for feet. A good one! V4? This is known as "Satan's Layback". I showed it to Eric Winkleman and he cruised it like it was 5.8. The book lists it as a VH (they estimate 5.11/5.11+).That's accurate. Couldn't tell it to watch Winkleman climb it though.