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I climbed probably four routes at the garden wall, over 10 years ago now. The routes are great, and I reccomend that you clean em, instead of nail em! Go over to Lworth and find some unclimbable pile of crap, or anything that looks like no one would ever want to free climb on it, and wail away. I typically find the need for an occasional pin in the Snoqualmie Pass area, where the rock is such that even micro pins won't go. But that's only one or two pins, mind you. Also, the ice climbs at Banks often tr with a mix of pro, including pins. The volcanoes need them, on the few technical rock routes that I've done there.

to answer your question: yes, REI carries the F.U.D.--femanine urinary device. Good luck. [ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: none ]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned my aquantance: Stim Bullit, who is a contemporary of Fred's, and who has done the highest 50.

As charming as our charming NW weather is, I am heading down to Mexico in early Feb. for a respite. I have seen some pix and read some on-line stuff about trad climbing and bouldering in the Cabo San Lucas area. Does anyone have any tales to tell about this (# of routes, gear to bring, route grades, local contacts etc?) Any info would be most welcome. Climb con dios

To Alpine Tom: Too bad we don't have 25 divisions. Too bad we don't have 16! Try 2/3 to 1/3 strength of about 8, and you're gettin' close. [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: none ]

Rodchester, you asked for the story of a user being liable. Way back, 10 or more years ago, a climber tied-in to one of the two "rabbit ears" tie-in points on his harness. He ripped the point and cratered. Stupidity didn't kill him that time, and he had the cheek to try suing REI. Previously, Chounard had lost it's biz in a similar type of lawsuit related to their harness. REI was the first manufacturer to stand up to these frivilous lawsuits, where the harness was improperly used, and actually win.

Two gearhead observations: Alpine Bod (hereafter called AB) harnesses are safe and properly designed - don't get me wrong. Geez, I even have one myself (a harness with no padding, no gear loops and no belay loop ain't all bad, I guess.) Most harnesses that have a belay loop have a large "rise", which is the distance between the two tie in points. A large rise makes it more likely that a biner will be loaded improperly, if you clip into the tie in points on this type of harness. AB harnesses are safe to use because the bottom tie in is designed to come up level with or even above the top tie in, resulting in very little "rise". When it does this, the belay biner is generally aligned correctly. Trick from a guide friend of mine: If you have an Alpine Bod harness and simply must have a belay loop, then tie two loops of 5.0 or 5.5 spectra cord onto the bottom loop of the harness. After you put on the harness, girth hitch the tied spectra loops thru both parts of the harness and belay off the spectra loops. Double loops are redundant. BD will say the voids their warranty and is not a recommended use, blah blah, but it sounds plenty safe to me.

My 2 bits - I think climbers need to be versatile. Try to learn different techniques to accomodate different situations. Examples . . . 1) Rapping fast, multiple pitches, with lots of cracks and places for rope to maybe get hung up: EDK all he way. 2) Rapping slabs or snow with minimal danger of rope getting hung up: EDK or square knot finished with double fisherman's. 3) Setting a rap station for beginners to practice on all day, with many people using the same rope: triple fishermans with a "channel lock plier" finish!

Hi all, Sorry if this tpoic has been covered previously. I did a search and found nada. Here goes: What are your/our thoughts on use of the belay/rappel loop for it’s intended purpose? *** Reasons to use the belay loop (as I see them) *** - Safer belaying (less chance of cross loading the biner, easier to check the biner to see it’s locked) - Harness design (BD and REI have warning labels on their new harnesses, telling you to use the belay loop. Harness makers would not add a loop if it were not safe or ever had a chance of failing) - More convenient (easier to put the rope into and take the rope out of the belay/rap loop, harness is less cluttered) - Super strong (from 15-30 Kn, or 3300 to 6600 lbs, depending on manufacturer. FYI, a new 11 mm rope can be broken with 4,500- 5,500 lbs of force, depending on the knot used in the rope.) - Safer rappels (Less chance on a rappel of getting clothing sucked into rap device, as rap device is farther away from your body; a lot easier to use an autoblock as a backup) *** Reasons NOT to use the belay loop *** “I have a lame BD Alpine Bod harness and it doesn’t have a loop.” (Get a new harness) “I learned on an Alpine Bod harness, bought a better harness with a belay loop, and still belay and rap the way I used to.” (Learn better, more modern climbing methods.) “I don’t trust that lil’ skinny thing. Two points are redundant, one is not.” (Understand the design concepts and strength ratings of your equipment and trust it. If you don’t trust gear rated to 30 kn, you may wish to take up croquet.) Yes, I am clearly biased. But I know there are a LOT of you out there who belay from the “hard points” of your harness and ignore the belay loops. Can folks from both sides of the discussion add to these points above? If you are a climbing veteran who does not use the belay loop, can you tell us why not? Here’s to a lively discussion!

Hi folks, Here is a nice site I found recently that has break tests data for lots of different climbing ropes and gear. (Using a Humvee winch and a tank - yes, a tank - to break gear. THAT sounds like a fun way to spend a Saturday!) Check it out: http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/pull_tests_11_98.html

Beck, Thanks for the clarification. I should have made this more clear in my original post. ASCA does NOT promote or pay for bolting of new routes, only rebolting / replacement of existing, unsafe bolts. I did say REbolting on my post, and gave the URL for ASCA (safeclimbing.org) if anyone wanted to check them out, but there are some on this thread that don't seem to read past the first line or two. Sigh . . . Shoulda' known better than to start a bolt related post. xo, nuts_n_screws

Dear anti boltheads, Let's not turn this into a sprayfest of US vs THEM. If you have never clipped a bolt in your entire life, then you have a right to rag. Fact is at Smith (and most any other crag I can think of) even the good trad routes have bolt anchors and rap stations we rely on. It's easy to flame on line. It's a bit harder to down put some cash to support safety at your local climbing area. Please, this is not the place for a bolt philosophy rant.

Hi friends, I just saw on the American Safe Climbing Association web site (safeclimbing.org) that the Mazamas donated $500 for bolt and anchor replacement at Smith Rock! Pretty cool! I know Ryan Lawson, the guy who has done a lot of bolt replacement and new route development at Smith, and he has spent hundreds of hours and several thousand $ from his pocket for this important work. Nice to help him out a little. It's a good reminder for all of us that rely on bolts that A) someone spent a lot of time and effort to put them there, B) they cost moolah, and C) they will deteriorate over time. Cheers to Mazamas for stepping up and supporting their local climbing area. (Hey Mountaineers - how about a matching donation? Mazamas have 3,000 members, and y'all have about 15,000!) Safe cimbing to all!

Want a stove that costs about $2 in parts, you can easily wih regular household tools, burns cheap, readily available fuel, burns silently, weighs about 3 ounces, has no moving parts that can break, and boils a pint of water in about 5 minutes? Check out this site: http://members.home.net/d.h.j/stove/HighPerfAlcoholStove.html I made one last week and it works great. It's not something you'd take on Denali, but for 3 season use and backpacking it might be the ticket. Lots of PCT through-hikers are using homeade stoves these days. Good project for Scout groups and kids, too - cheap and kinda fun to make. Might really be nice when the next earthquake hits and the gas lines are out . . . and teach your neighbors how to make one. Peace, n-s

"Don't consider a harness without a full strength rear loop. They are just too handy and may just save your butt if something else screws up." Why is a "full strength" real haul loop important? You guys would not actually ever tie into it, would you? That technique is a bit outdated, by my understanding. It can really mess up your back if you catch a big fall, and it's almost impossible to escape the belay if you need to initiate a rescue. I use the rear loop for a chalk bag and to clip a 2nd rope to - a beefy loop is not needed for either task. So, why the big deal about the strength of the loop? Seems to me that if tying in the back was a good idea, then Petzl would have kept the bomber rear haul loop. Harness makers know what they are doing. Your thoughts?

A tip for pee bottle use: Regular use of a pee bottle can make for quite a stink. Drop an iodine tablet in the piss pot - it'll kill the critters that cause the bad smell.

Hi crevasse trekkers, Climbing mag publishes and sells a great new book on glacier travel and crevasse rescue. It's called, strangely enough, The Illustrated Guide to Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue, by by Andy Tyson and Mike Clelland. Mike is the dude who does the great how-to cartoons in Climbing mag, and this book rocks for teaching the essentials of glacier travel. Even old hands will pick up a tip or two. Highly recommended. Order thru their website or at most local shops - $15. (I do NOT work for Climbing mag) http://www.climbing.com/books00.html Cheers!

Hi friends, I will be heading north to BC in a month and hope to buy a Nozone pack (well liked on this fourum). Question: where is a good place to buy one in Vancouver? I called MEC, Coast Mt Sports and Great Outdoors Equipment. No one carries this pack, but two said they could special order it. Do folks know any store in the area that actually stocks the Nozone, and if yes, the cost in $Canadian? Cheers!

Any permanent pen that does not smell like heavy solvent (ie, gets you stoned!) is cool for marking ropes. Sharpie pens do not get me baked, and are thus fine for marking ropes.

Books on tape rock for staying awake on road trips. Check them out from your library for free! Get 3-4 different ones so you can change if one is lame. A good thriller can make an hour go by like it was 10 minutes - and admit it, when was the last time someone read to you? (I leave for Tuolumne tomorrow (wheeeee!) from Portland, and I have 4 Books on Tape.) Peace, ns

I agree with this post in general: the new universal crampons rock! There are a few other options out there other than the Stubai which folks may want to investigate. BD makes the Contact, and Grivel makes the G-10. Both are very similar - 10 point steel crampons. I have the G-10s. I considered the Stubais for a long time, but opted for the greater durability of the steel points and a bit more weight. On that note, a weight comparison: Stubais: 21.4 oz BD Contact: 30 oz Grivel G-10: 29 oz Links are below. (Sorry about the REI link - Grivel does not seem to have a web site up yet.) Black Diamond Contact: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/alpinism/crampons_contact_strap.html Grivel G-10: http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=5743&prmenbr=8000 Live Large, johngo in Portland

I have been going to the outdoor wall nearby at Marymoor Park instead of Redmond VW since they built it. I have not got any attitude there since the park staff stopped locking the gate at dusk. Ok, it's not so good in winter but you can work on getting your fingers to stay warm on cold concrete.

Was up the West Ridge last weekend. There was no snow until descending the Cascadian Couloir. It had about 150' you would have to cross.

Hello Climber Friends, I climbed Olympus this past weekend (July 29-Aug 1, 2001). The scenery is spectacular up there, and worth every step of the approach (which is through one of the mnost magnificent forests you'll ever see.) Anyone that badmouths this route as being too far in or too low a peak has likely never done it, and it's a technically trickier climb than many folks might think. Highly recommended! Here's my beta and suggestions . . . 1) 4 days is the minimum - Day 1: hike into 9 mile camp. Day 2: hike to Glacier Meadows (mile 18ish) Day 3: climb, return to high camp, pack up, and hike out as far as you can (we made it all the way back to 9 mile), Day 4: out to cars and home. Pray hard to the Sun Goddess. 2) Pack as light as you can. Light footwear is key. Running shoe hike in works great. Use the lightest boots you can for the climb. I used the new Grivel G-10 universal crampons - they rock!!! - Fits anything from sport sandals to plastic boots. REI in Portland rents 'em - worth renting even if you have a beefier pair of crampons. No plastic boots! 3) Use the Custom Correct map. 4) Crossing the Blue Glacier: The compass bearing from the uphill end of the moraine across the Blue is 190 magnetic (in case you can't see it when you are up there at the start.) There are hundreds of crevasses on the Blue, but nothing more than 2-3 feet across and routefinding is easy. We were roped up for the Blue. Crampons required. A GPS would not be a bad idea here, as wands are hard to put in ice. At least take a good compass back bearing if you have clear weather on the way up, cuz you may really want it on the way back of the clouds roll up from the valley. 5) Gear: No pickets needed. Use buried axes for deadmen if you need a crevasse rescue anchor on the Snow dome. I would have been happy if I had 2-3 Tri cams and 2 big stoppers for the rock on top. The rock gear is light and adds peace of mind for some easy but exposed lead moves. A 50 meter rope rap just makes it off the top. Need belay device for the rap. Bring 2 ice screws for crevasse rescue on the Blue Glacier. Bring several large liteweight (not 1" webbing!) slings and a cordellette for slinging rocks on summit block. Exposed 5.1/5.2 climbing on summit block. 6) Good boot track all the way up Snow Dome. There's a moat at Crystal Pass that may need vertical snow-ice climbing for about 15 feet on the return after Aug 15 or so - the bridge was melting fast when we were there. Stay roped on Snow dome all the way to top - BIG crevasses up there. 7) Bring chocolate or fresh fruit for the nice backcountry rangers at Glacier Meadow - they are cool, have good route beta, and are 18 miles in. 8) Times: We took 12 hours with a moderately skilled group of four. We burned an extra hour on the return crossing of the Blue due to 75 foot visibility. A faster team could likely do round trip from Glacier Meadows in 8-9 hours. Have fun, and be safe! John Godino Portland

Barrabes, Barrabes, Barrabes !!!!!!!! Muy, Muy, Bien! Excellente! BD Shrikes $160 USD Makalus $108 USD And arrived in less than a week!