TimL

What about the top 5 least known, not often climbed jewels of the Cascades. Routes that don't get much traffic, but are unknown classic or deserve more attention.

It's a moderate free climb now if you haven't heard.

Index face climbing is special cause it's a mix , IMO, between fiction and technical face. For a lot of people who've climbed at Index, you'll recall that on the harder cracks, the crux sections are more face cruxes versus cracks i.e Jap Gardens and Iron Horse, Natural Log Cabin, TPMV. Like most climbing, it depends what your used to. As for grades, they are on par with the cracks. They are just not the same style as 38, 32 or Smith. It's it's own special style. Just like overhanging limestone is it's special style. I know climbers that can't climb a 5.9 slab that put down 5.14. It's all about what your used to and what know how to climb. I've had to learn how to climb roofs and tufas here, but anything that involves friction, cracks or technical face climbing comes naturally.

What, are we growing thin skinned? Come on...learn to take the piss! Thats what makes this board fun!

Good point, below a certain grade if you leave your draws on a route and they get nabbed.....well enough said. Too bad this has to be wrapped up in grades cause theft any way is not right. But you also have to be smart about where you leave them. In this case, I don't know the routes because I've never climbed at Little Si too often. I prefer Index, where I can take my gear out.

I agree with bret. Don't take stuff that's not yours. What someone did was above all disrespectful as well as blatant theft. Above a certain grade in sport climbing, you leave your draws on a project. Thats kinda how it is. When you climbing at you limit or above, it's super difficult to mess around with hanging your draws every go on a route. It's almost foolish. Your climbing for difficulty. Especially on a really overhanging route, it's really difficult to hang the draws. When you start getting into mid 13's and 14's it's a totally different game. Unless you've climbed at that level, it's really hard to understand. It's not like going off to Index and firing off 10 pitches of 5.10 and 5.11. It's not even like climbing 5.12 trad. It's a different world IMHO. What Bret did is nothing out of the ordinary. And old school tradsters can't bitch about this one. Trad and spot are different games. When I do a hard sport routes, I leave my draws. When I do a hard trad route (yes we have hard cracks in in Espana) I pull my gear every go. Different schools of thought. Draws are not trash, that is a stupid statement. You can't compare leaving draws on a route to leaving trash at the crags. If that were the argument then chalk and bolts would all be trash. As of right now, I've had draws on a project for two weeks. Nobody has touched them. As for Bret, not sure about Washington anymore, but there are not tons people who climb and know about routes in the grade range your talking about and the people that do are usually a fairly small community. When people steal draws here, it's more of a personal vendetta versus outright theft. It takes a fair amount of work to pull draws off a hard route. You sure you didn't piss someone off?

just give me the dates! Rodellar!

The thing about the Cascades is I find is that I walk more and climb less. Bu, it's a dam pretty walk.

Yeah, I did that one a long time ago. I remember thinking the same thing. Old school 5.8 at it's best.

Yeah I thought the same thing for a couple years. The only thing I thought about was going back to Index and the Cascades. Then when I was in Washington the only thing I thought about was going back to Spain. Last summer climbing in the Cascades was great for the entire two hours the sun shined. Then it occurred to me that I love the Cascades, Washington and the PNW in general, but I also have it pretty friggin good were I'm at. There is nothing like the alpine in the Cascades. The type of wild and scenic climbing you can do in the Cascades is amazing. Here, my guess kinda like Colorado, I have good weather and I actually have to take time off from climbing because I end up climbing too much. Now it's not the same as the Cascades, but it pretty dam good in it's own way. Now, I go on vacation and I climb in the Cascades in the summer and take advantage of the good weather and I still get about as many routes in as when I lived there. I just spend my time else where waiting for the good weather. You probably also need to get out and meet some climbers who are interested in doing the same thing that you like to do and it can be tough meeting new people. Focus on having fun with what you have, versus with what you don't have. You might move back to the PNW and so might I some day, but use this as a chance to check out new areas and adventure a little.

Thats kinda a stupid statement. Since when did one group have priority over another? I thought it was first come first serve.

Wow, I'd kill to be in Yosemite right now! You guys have fun!

gross, disgusting, adolescent, do anyone, anything, anywhere, semi-bold, semi- coward, ran out, spun out bastard

Go do some ice climbing in the Canadian Rockies. March is a good time to be up there.

I'm thinking about buying a new synthetic 0F sleeping bag. Was was checking out the Mountain Hardware Lamina. Anybody use this bag? Anybody have any other recommendations? Thanks!

Coming back across the big pond to spend the holidays with the folks. I'd give my first born, to be able to do some climbing while back. I'm trying to get away two to four days between 12/26 to 1/3 to climb whatever. I'm not set on any day, I can leave earlier or come back later. Any combination of days work. I'm keen on ice, possible the Rockies or Littlewet or rock climbing. Vantage, Index or 38 (weather depending), Trout Creek or Smith rocks. I'd love do do some crack climbing. The only hitch is I need to have some idea of what I'm going to do before the 20th cause i got to bring the gear. Either way, if your interested pm me. Cheers, Tim

Dane's idea seems very Euro. So many mountains and routes are bolted for descent, and quick bail off. It's nice and very comfortable. Opens routes to the masses and can be the cause of serious clusterfucks here and there due to over crowding. In one way I do like it cause you can bang multiple long rotes off in a day and get a lot of climbing in. IMO, leave the Cascades wild. The beauty about the Cascades is that is is still a fairly remote, untamed experience. I think it should stay that way. Thats why I keep coming back every other summer. For that wilderness experience. We should try to preserve it.

When are you thinking of coming to Spain. It's might be best from what I've heard to DWS in the spring. The Med is cold in the winter. Mallorca of course is good, but I believe there are cliffs in Valencia and Alicante. Your might try Andalucia and maybe Malaga. Try typing in psicobloc in google. As for grades, 5.7 to 5.10 deep water soloing might just be plain dangerous. You want something overhanging enough that you'll fall back into the water, and typically the safer routes will be harder cause they are overhanging. Mu guess is that most will start around 7a or 11d/12a. I'll try to write more later and talk to some folks as I don't have much time now.

This route, must notably the style of climbing, is making me work really hard for the redpoint. But it's really good and I'm learning tons. I've always been more of a face climber than a steep roof/overhang climber. This spring I decided to change my styles as I wanted to climb harder and climb harder at a different type of climbing dynamic horizontal roof climbing. So far this is the last route to fall in my circuit, but it might take more time than I thought. Funny thing is this is not my hardest redpoint, it's just a type of climbing I suck at. I go in stages as the type of climbing I do. Since moving to Spain I've more focused on rock. I also go between periods of only wanting to climb onsite to sometimes sitting beneath a project for a long time giving goes and goes for a redpoint.

I'm thinking in terms of redpointing a single pitch crack or sport route, but you could also consider an alpine route as fair game. I have one particular route that I'm trying that is really difficult because of the style of climbing that it involves. This weekend on the 23rd go on the route I feel off the last hold. To do it, I could give another 23 goes if I'm unlucky. The thing is that I've onsighted this grade, so it's more the style of climbing versus the grade. When does not completing a route become absurd after so many trys? When does it push you to train harder?

I think that gear has been there for a long time. At least 5 or 6 years.

Funny. I just hope that is not me in 20 years... It will be me.

Yeah, your going to be one of those 50 year olds tr'ing 4th class with your beer gut hanging out and your ass crack showing, screaming at your kid to pay attention while he's checking out some prana hottie.

Nothing beats driving all the way over to crack climb at Index, not even flying all the way across the big pond. On the other hand, talk to Alex about some possible crack routes he knows of in 32.

Wow, that would be awesome if he does it.