TimL

I’ve been pondering this system for a while. I’m getting ready to buy a 9.4 x 70m rope and I’m thinking about buying a 6mm or 7mm tag line. But to be honest, I’d like to here from people who have used this type of rope system for alpine rock, as well as to rappel. I’d like to hear your opinion about pros and cons of the system and if it’s actually that much better than two doubles. When I compared it to the double 60’s I have, the two 70’s weighed in about the same. The advantages that I can think of is being able to rap longer, run pitches together, and not having to mess with a second rope at the belay as the smaller rope I would be stuck in the pack. But when I weigh these factors together it really doesn’t come to be a deal breaker. There aren’t many places where I need to rap 70 meters. Now, leading with two 8.1 x 60’s is actually fairly heavy once you get to the end of a pitch so the lighter lead rope would be more comfortable. Anyways I’d like to hear people’s opinions and experiences. I’m also interested to hear opinions on how safe this system is to rappel on. Obviously you have to position the knot properly and make sure it’s dressed really well, but anything else that you might or might not take into consideration when rapping? Also, would you go with a 6mm or 7mm tag line? How much does that matter? I’ve rapped plenty of times on a 10mm and an 8 mm ropes tied together so I know the dynamics, but I guess having two skinny ropes is what prompting my questions. Also, what about the smaller tag line cutting over sharp edges on a traversing rap? Serious concern or logical worry. Last, does the type of anchor that you’re rapping from determine the amount of attention that should be paid? For example, I wouldn’t worry as much rapping from an anchor with rings then with a nest of slings. Logic being the strain on the heavier rope might be able to pull the knot over the webbing therefore increasing the imbalance between the fat and skinny rope, but it would,t be able to pull the knot through rings. I have no experience with this so I’m wondering if these are valid concerns or totally illogical or if there is something else I’m not thinking about. The last thing which would be an inherent negative would be if the fat route got stuck on the rap and you had nothing but the small tag line to lead out on the free the stuck rope. But that’s sort of a given risk that you take with this system. Thanks for any and all advice. I’ve never seen anybody use this system over hear for what it matters.

A 60 is fine, but be careful. It will get you to the top of the boulder under the 5.10 start.

July 1st. It's been almost two years since I've been back. Can't wait!

I bet they are for softer stone if they are not a joke. Really, they seem like a great idea with not an everyday practical use. Especially in granite. Linestine or Dolomite stone might be different. They remind me of something they use here in Spain for aiding on limestone. Aiding on limestone requires creative uses of wooden blocks and pitons the Spanish call "talar". Basically, you stuff a couple small wooden wedges on a pocket, them drive a piton somewhere between them to make it solid, gith hitch it and hang from it. Scary stuff. When you can't "talar", you gotta use these things that resemble huge bashies. They look like the lead weight that you use to fish with and are about a 3x3 inch piece of aluminium with a metal wire sticking out. When the pocket is too shallow to "taler" you bash one of these bad boys into the pocket to fill it up. Aiding on limestone is pretty full-on stuff. But thats what the putty nuts remind me of.

WOW!

Already climbed Cathedral, Eichorn and Mathes Crest. They were amazing routes in an amazing area but they are the only thing we've every climbed in the Sierras. What I was thinking about is to try to drive causually down the east side, can you do this from Bend, then take a side trip to climb something beautiful and classic. Maybe spend three four days somewhere that I've never been. Maybe something with a classic route (5.9/5.10) to get to know the area then something harder to pull down on. Length and difficulty are not too important. Quality is the most important. Seems like a good way to go to Yosemite if you have time. I'm so tired of I-5. Thanks

On the way down to the Valley this fall, I'm thinking about making a side trip to climb in the Sierras. So I'm trying to figure out a couple of good routes to do. I've checked the Supertopo page, but I'm looking for first hand recommendations on must do routes. Thanks!

You also have to consider if whatever route your doing is an endurance route or a bouldery route.

Impressive. I've been to Margalef and climbed there several times. Great area. Really good conglomerate. I've also stood below the route. Impressive solo, but it's sorta of blurring the lines between a short route and a high boulder problem. Certainly you need cajones to do it, but it seems it also a little bit of tooting ones own horn. I you fell you would get hurt and possibly die. I guess professional climers have to media whore themselves out to make a living. To each his own. BTW - If ever going to Spain to climb in the winter, go to Margalef. It's close to Siurana, but less people. This past January we spent a couple days in Margalef, went to Siurana, stayed there 15 minutes, then went back to Margalef. There are a lot of people in Siurana and Margalef is usually quiet and relaxed. I might post some pics. The hostel there is awesome, cheap and the food is good. The guy who owns it is a climber and has put up a lot of routes in the area.

Alpine rock, alpine ice, high altitude alpine climbing, alpine style, alpine mixed, alpine sport.......alpine cider, alpine huts, alpine touring, alpine hairlines.... dude, alpine is in your head. Alpine means differnt to differnt people. Whats alpine to Steve House is a nightmare to me.....whats alpine to me is a cream puff to others. a rope, a rack, a willing partner and a route in the mountains. Thats alpine to me. BTW - I think most routes if not all routes, in the Bugs are alpine rock routes. Big and commiting doesn't mean alpine at all. You can have easy alpine, hard alpine...whatever. I would't consider El Cap to be alpine.

When planning for a climb I generally include summiting in my plan.... Anyway, who is it that allows us to summit? (Since you're playing semantics with a new climber) Have fun planning to summit, DBBattig! Yeah, yeah what I'm saying is the summit isn't the end, not always. I've planned many summits in my life, and I've unplanned my ass handed to me many times. Anyways, climb...have fun and hopefully summit...if you don't hopefully don't get dissapointed but keep plugging away.

fyi, most likely it is a cutting edge in this type of climbing. but this post just shows you are jizz gurgling fuckface. my advice: go suck some dicks- don't bother writing about the subject you have no clue. That just made my day. Good stuff Bob. Way to set the shit straight!

...and anything below the alpine hairline would be.....bushwacking?

I bouldered in the Bugs...would that be alpine bouldering or climbing....could be alpine cragging. Define alpine clucking.... 8D

Check out climbing partners forum/snowcone hiking! Also we never plan to summit a mountain. It's we would like/allowed/got lucky. Good luck on your climbs!

Yeee! Bethy! And after only 5 months of rehearsal! So....do you get extra points if you're a gurl? Figure somebody would say something like this. You gotta understand there are climbers that are gifted like Ondra that can put down multiple 14+ routes in a week. Then you have the really good climbers that have to work there ass off. Then you have us hacks that sit and spray. Anyways, my point is out of several of the 14+ climbers I know, most work on routes for a while before sending. But really, can you imagine what type of shape you have to be in to climb 5.14? Or even 13's? It's unreal. Hat's off to these people and Rodden. If I projected a 14 it would be over 100 years.

Pretty friggin cool!

It seems like this is no longer the in fashion way, but I'm all for mixed routes when needed. I seem to remeber doing several in LW. I think it's great to climb a route mostly on gear then clip a bolt if there is reasonably nothing. I think Hindquarters could go this was. What bolts are on Prussik? Seems to me I've heard of people adding routes to Prussik over the years, but does anybody have a current topo of trhe routes that are on Prussik? The new ones?

Actually the route in question, Hindquarters, can be lead on gear. If I remember a red bd and some small gear, good stuff but a bit exciting.

Nice! Nothing like climbing at Index and watching big avys pour off of Index!

How I miss gazing at the Cascades from Seattle on a nice sunny winter day....sigh....4 more months and counting.....

Whatever happened to the hot Spanish wife? You just need to drink more beer and eat more meaty-cheeseys. Men with kilos are men with power. FWIW I'm looking at a Marmot Helium 0 degree down. My 0 degree synthetic is waay to bulky. Chorizo chesseys!

Its more of a bag and a sleeping bag, not really a combo deal. Maybe a zero bag and a good bivy. Looking for a warmer bag for long winter nights nights versus a quick alpine combo. Already have a light down and a light synthetic, but the heavy Marmot I have is junk and needs to be replaced. Plus, I normally sleep cold.

It's about time this coming summer to drop some dough a new bivy sack and syn sleeping bag. Most important thing is I would like to hear peoples opinions on the bivy sacks that are out there. I've had my current one for 10 years and it is finished. My wife has the Integral Designs Salathe Bivy and it's good, but I want something different. Keep in mind I'm not looking for a bivy sack in place of a tent, just a good bivy for times when a solid bivy sack would be better than a Bibler I Tent. Light is important but durability is equally important. As for sleeping bag something warm and light, if that can go together. Around -15. I'd like to hear peoples opinions on gear from the States cause we don't get much of it here and in my opinion the gear made by companies in the States is in general better than what I've seen here. Thanks for everything!

This is a funny thread and Bob hits it head on, plus I like his ranting Bob style! It's really just fun banter. Look at all the free routes on El Cap. Most, if not all were put up by people who spent a lot of time sport climbing. Lyn Hill, Huber, Yuji, and Caldwell. All house hold names in sport climbing. Granted Holding has a partial route and there might be another to the right but all the routes that were freed to the top were done by .....sport climbers. Besides, there arn't trad climbs out there hard enough for these kids right now. But if they turn to the dark side they'll be climbing some of the hardest shit around. Given a quick learning curve, these kids would be walking up 5.13 trad in no time. Also, it's better that they stay sport climbing. Cause what free climbing projects that are left, moderate 12+ to 13-, these kids would be eating them up leaving nothing for the rest of us. In the end, who cares what who climbs. Grades don't mean shit. It's all about what you personally take away from the experience. I get mine, you get yours thats all any of us are asking for. Simple. I'll leave you with a quote from a friend of mine whose pulling down hard. When asked why he doesn't climb cracks or slabs, we have one of the best slab climbing areas in the world just outside of Madrid, he said, "I'll climb that shit when I'm old and fat cause it gives me more gravity to hand on to nothiing". I thought it was funny, but oh well.