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By imminent danger, I mean something bad will almost definitely happen to them, short of action by them. Why am I being singled out here with regards to Israel? I don't ever get into these flame wars regarding Israel. I tried to shift the discussion to the US in Iraq and you quashed that.

No. They are not in imminent danger.

Well, if you put it that way, given the current environment of the ME I'd say Israel has nothing to worry about. So no. I don't think they should bomb Iran.

Yep, where does it end? If the Arab league were totally convinced that Israel was going to end their existence, then of course how could you fault them for attempting to survive. Of course, I doubt the Arab League could pull it off. Just like Iraq couldn't really do much with the US breathing down its neck.

Could I get an executive summary of that wordy link please? Oh nevermind, I think I get the gist, but since I don't want to read that whole thing I will make my response conditional. If there is very good evidence that there is a real and imminent threat to Israel, then as a matter of self-preservation I would not hold it against them if they bombed Iranian nuclear facilities. On the other hand, if it's just a bunch of trumped up BS meant to further some other agenda that the public would not otherwise support, then I'd say no. I would not support it.

I thought it was funny that he was worried about people questioning his motives. I mean, he's thrown out three or four motives for his Iraq fiasco so far, each of which has been exposed as a bald-faced lie. Now he's trying to say this prisoner scandal is the thing making people question his motives. That's rich! "Which motive 'zactly you talkin' 'bout there George?" I like the idea of hilarious shrub route too Klenke!

May 10., 2004 "It has given some an excuse to question our cause and to cast doubts on our motives"

How about this quote from Bush himself? "There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties." You can view the quote in context at this left-wing liberal site: www.whitehouse.gov .

I don't get how that's bad etiquette Isn't it nicer that they leave more untracked snow?

Yep, classic conspiracy theory, total conjecture. I just started this thread out because I just couldn't figure out what anyone would want with those pictures. I realize that many of these soldiers are probably total dumbshits from rural nowhereland, but I wasn't aware that in rural nowhereland that a picture of yourself as torturer was an exciting souvenir. But, you could be right. Like I said in another post: These US soldiers are living in an unreal hellish world. I mean, they are part of a force that is bulldozing people's houses, bombing whole buildings full of people, shooting into crowds, etc.... compare the recent torture pictures to that video posted a while ago of three sitting-duck insurgents being turned into sloppy joe by a high-caliber machine gunner with night vision technology. I can see how someone over there could become numb to death, pain and mutilation and easily fall into torture. Check out that Stanford Prison Experiment websight. In that, the head PhD researcher started losing himself in that roleplaying, while in the cush confines of Stanford University. Imagine what can happen to your run-of-the-mill soldiers who joined the Army for the money once immersed in the hellish situation that must like to be an American soldier in Iraq right now. Anyway...the above paragraph is not to excuse the behaviour of the camera-mugging torturers. I guess it is to say that this kind of shit just happens. When you invade another country with 100,000+ troops and occupy a hostile population, ugly shit is just gonna happen. People who were for this war from the beginning should have known this. If not, they were/are uninformed. War is messy. People get hurt. Torturing, mayhem, death defines and is commonplace in war. The fault for the torturing is with those six scapegoats, but it's also with everyone who has supported this administration's rush to war. Maybe via this war we have saved countless peoples from torture under Saddam. You can praise yourselves for that undetermined number, but if you take credit for that, you also gotta take responsibility for the tortured, raped, killed in the detention centers, for the thousands killed by US bombs, guns, tanks etc. And finally, for the thousands of US soldiers injured and/or disabled, and for the 770 US soldiers killed. So far.

From the above link Robert Kagan, a neoconservative supporter of the Iraq war, wrote: "All but the most blindly devoted Bush supporters can see that Bush administration officials have no clue about what to do in Iraq tomorrow, much less a month from now."

That's the due process thing I was talking about. You know, getting to go before a judge and having them decide whether there's enough evidence to hold you in jail. Also that little bit about them having to actually charge you with something to hold you in jail. I'm all for that stuff.

"The sources said Mayfield, 37, is being called a material witness, which means he can be held and not charged." link (CNN) your mug could be here, especially if you convert to Islam

Agreed. Then if they get pictures of them doing it, just once, they can keep them in line even after they sober up, or get some guilt pangs. People have been saying, "why would anyone take pictures of themselves doing that shit?" Well, I think those pictures were taken for a reason, and it wasn't for these reserves to be able to reminisce back at home with.

You're straying from the point Dr. Flash, Dr. Crash is not Cairns. The difference in performance Dr. Crash is gonna get between any pair of (comfy yet snug) shoes is going to be quite minimal. But I agree, getting a supportive (klunky) shoe is not a necessity. A newbie's arms are gonna flame out long before his/her feet, so I don't think support is required.

It will be interesting to see whether this guy is given due process, or if he will be stripped of all constitutional rights. Lawyer, married with children, living in Coos Bay, sounds pretty middle/upper class. If this guy gets detained indefinitely without access to an outside attorney, you gotta believe noone is safe from our overreaching executive branch. When is the supreme court going to come out with their decision on this stuff anyway? Does it take months, weeks, days usually for them to return a decision?

And to top it off, the whole crew was probably blabbering on cell phones

I'll tell you why. Because the military intelligence guys wanted to be able to keep the dumb enlisted pukes in line. I think it's pretty well established that often the torturers are under some kind of duress themselves. These dumb kids, who are now going to be the scapegoats, thought maybe it was funny at first. The intelligence guys took their pictures, then if any of 'em started getting cold feet about torturing, the intelligence guys could just tell them they couldn't back out now. They were in for life. Classic blackmail technique. I hope they get the military intelligence thugs who commanded all of this, instead of just a couple of dumb kids in the reserves who got caught up in some bad shit. It ain't right.

I'll tell you one thing, I'd rather go climbing with someone who's not climbing so well, than someone who's constantly crying about his feet hurting AND not climbing well. If your feet hurt bad, you'll be avoiding foot placements that make them hurt. You will reduce your choices of holds and thus climb more poorly. It's important to have your toes touching the front of the boot. They are not going to stretch lengthwise. If they stretch widthwise, just tighten the laces up more. Duh. Don't worry about the shoe stretching. Just make sure that you have more room to crank down the laces.

Maybe there's a reason your story is only on Fox News.

And is the first 11+ pitch easily aidable?

That folding sink is actually sorta handy for backpacking, and good for the environment. You can easily do all your dish washing far from a watersource. Of course 20$ is pretty steep for collapsible bucket. You can easily make one by cutting the top off of one these 6$ jobs.

Klenke and Kompany, nice job! Looks like a kool klimb. With respect to summit registers: when I catch myself leafing through one of them a bit too long, reading stuff like, "Beautiful sunny day! Can see Adams, Rainier, ...", or "Total summit whiteout. This always happens to me!" over and over, I suddenly feel pretty stupid to be wasting limited view-gazing minutes poring over the weather record of the past few years.

Exactly what AF says! Think comfy, or at least, not painful. Don't listen to salespeople telling you to get them too small. It is nice to have them as snug as possible. For that you just need to try all sorts of different shoes and see which fits your feet the best. Do NOT get them so small they hurt walking around the shop for 5 seconds. Getting them extra tight so that they hurt may be helpful when you're climbing, say, 5.10+ face, but it sounds like you're not there yet. And if you're primarily interested in peakbagging with small amounts of technical ground, I'd consider just getting some approach shoes with sticky rubber. Fitting them snug will help with the climbing, but of course, could hurt on long approaches.

my puffy hurts