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tpcollins

Newbie question about tying in with figure 8 loop

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Every video/instructions I see has the figure 8 loop going thru the leg strap and waistband - never just the belay loop. But when I look at this attachment, it seems that the loop will pull up on the leg straps first before it bottoms out at the waist band.

 

I saw a video online where a guy tied thru the waistband and the belay loop instead, which he said would promote a more vertical hang rather than the "sitting" position that occurs when tying in as I listed in the first paragraph.

 

Is that merely an alternative attachment or is the guy 100% wrong? Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Edited by tpcollins

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I think the guy is wrong. The traditionally accepted method of tying into the rope is to run the rope through the waist and leg loops. The belay loop is for belaying an rappelling only.

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never trust someone who hangs in a harness enough that he uses some silly way to tie in to make it more comfortable. if you're hanging so much that you need a better sitting position, get a belay seat or something. otherwise, climb more and hang less.

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hanging by just the waist band sucks! In my opinion, you've got to have your legs supported too or your waist gets strangled.

 

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read some old time climbing books about using a swami belt for a harness and you will see why the addition of leg loops is universal.

 

good on you not to beleive everything you read in the internutz, except for what I say. :)

 

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What about the Petzl Aspir harness or the "gym" types that the only tie in point is at the waist with no belay loop? The leg straps are connected but that would promote a more vertical hang. I've seen these used at recreational climbing walls at training facilities - is that what they're intended for - just training? Thanks.

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i'm pretty sure skinner died from having a sling or daisy chain girth hitched to his belay loop for a long, long time. he didn't check the wear that was happening underneath the hitch.

Edited by christophbenells

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Your best bet i to follow the directions for tying in that came with your harness.

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What about the Petzl Aspir harness or the "gym" types that the only tie in point is at the waist with no belay loop? The leg straps are connected but that would promote a more vertical hang. I've seen these used at recreational climbing walls at training facilities - is that what they're intended for - just training? Thanks.

 

I am no engineer so maybe I am missing something. But with that Aspir harness, when you are sitting on the rope, the weight is supported mostly by the leg loops and very little from the waist belt riding up the torso. If you were to tie into just the waist belt of usual harnesses, the wait belt would slide up until the the belay loop is tight between the waist belt and the leg loops. (unless there is some other connection between these two parts, like in the aspir) This rising waist belt would put a lot of pressure on the rib cage or lower ab area, whatever is allowed by the belay loop size and looseness of waist belt when doning.

 

With a good fitting harness, there should be no difference in vertical hang between normal tie in and just tieing into the waist belt. Only adding a chest harness would affect the vertical hang that you are asking about.

 

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i'm pretty sure skinner died from having a sling or daisy chain girth hitched to his belay loop for a long, long time. he didn't check the wear that was happening underneath the hitch.

 

I heard it was the belay loop, being too old and too worn.

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While we all call them harnesses they are actually called sit harnesses with the goal being to place one in a sitting position when used. Such a position places the "least" amount of stress on a person's body.

 

Running the rope through the waist and belay loop ain't going to anything more than running the rope through just the waist loop. That is because the belay loop is never going to be loaded. So while one may be in a more vertical position most of the load will be at waist rather than at the waist and legs.

 

As for Todd's death - it was the belay loop that failed.

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I heard it was the belay loop, being too old and too worn.

 

Yep, he had a daisy chain girth hitched to the belay loop that wore through the belay loop. He went to go on rappel and the belay loop snapped.

 

Now you see everyone with there PAS girth hitched through the two tie in points, for good reason.

 

I tie in through the two tie in points, because, well, thats what your supposed to do.

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Every video/instructions I see has the figure 8 loop going thru the leg strap and waistband - never just the belay loop. But when I look at this attachment, it seems that the loop will pull up on the leg straps first before it bottoms out at the waist band.

 

I saw a video online where a guy tied thru the waistband and the belay loop instead, which he said would promote a more vertical hang rather than the "sitting" position that occurs when tying in as I listed in the first paragraph.

 

Is that merely an alternative attachment or is the guy 100% wrong? Thanks.

 

 

 

 

The guy you mention is 100% wrong. Tie in like the manufacturer of the harness says...through both the waistband and the leg loops.

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I heard it was the belay loop, being too old and too worn.

 

Yep, he had a daisy chain girth hitched to the belay loop that wore through the belay loop. He went to go on rappel and the belay loop snapped.

 

The issue with the girth hitching of the PAS to the belay loop was it meant all the abrasion on the belay loop happened in the same spot because the loop couldn't randomly rotate when the PAS was loaded. That was particularly problematic in his case because it was an ultralight harness so it wasn't an especially burly belay loop.

 

Is that merely an alternative attachment or is the guy 100% wrong?

 

Hey, it's fine to wonder why things are done the way they are but beginning and intermediate climbers should refrain from 'innovating' or adopting practices they see which are 'novel' and/or uncommon in any way.

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The belay loop is meant to be able to rotate completely. If you tie into it, it can no longer do so. This is also why you girth hitch into leg loops and waist loops too.

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I think you should always avoid a single failure point whenever possible. That's one reason rappelling is so relatively dangerous, since you can't avoid the single point of failure problem. You always want to be in situations where two things have to go badly wrong to cause disaster. Sometimes you can't do it and one point of failure is better than none.

 

Maybe things have changed since I was climbing. These days the stairs are around 5.2 for me...

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