Helmets

[Terry]

We were headed to Squamish this weekend when precip at Mt Vernon detoured us up to Washington Pass. I was giving a gym climbing friend her first taste of the outdoors. We did the Beckey Route on LB and North Face of Concord in cold, misty weather. We took the long way home via Peshastin and let her see the warm, more casual side of climbing.

We did a few routes then headed over to Lighting Crack. Since someone was on it we did the West Face route. We talked to the other couple on LC as we were getting ready. He cruised the lower portion putting in one piece midway, then a second piece in the crux. He appeared to be a decent climber but was really struggling with the crux. It was warm and you could tell he wasn't having an easy time with it. He had his feet too low (easy for me to say) and they kept skittering out from under him resulting in short 2 or 3 foot falls. The third time he fell he apparently grabbed the piece, giving it enough of an upward pull to pull it out, and went airborne, landing on his butt/back with a thud about 30 feet down. Very scary. He claimed to be okay but was obviously in a little bit of shock. Another foot or two and he would have landed on his helmetless head. A second piece before the crux would have helped a lot but again the guy knew the route and hindsight is cheap.

I've been climbing since the mid-70s and have always worn a helmet in the mountains. The old MSR was extremely protective but weighed a ton and we never thought we needed one when cragging. Steve, the guy on Sunday, had absolutely no control over his landing. I'm rethinking my helmet habits. Hopefully Steve and his butt are recovering.

Terry

[Cpt.Caveman]

Terry this is a hard crux and not to be taken lightly since it is sandstone.

A helmet might not be a bad idea if you are climbing at your limit often.

[viktor]

I have seen the exact same thing happen at least 3 times on that route as have others. Some locals call the route "Slab Slapper" for that reason.

[freak]

ouch,,

[EddieE]

Good lesson for everyone.

[freak]

I agree with mr anderson. I see people trusting one peice or one biner to keep them off the deck all the time, what about people topropeing through one locking carabiner, I think folks should stack the odds in thier favor.

case in point, a friend decked off spider line in J tree, when a yellow tcu tracked out of that grainy jt granite. he cliams it was bomber but he put it all on that piece and it pulled, rope streach and a good belay kept him alive, but that incedent for the most part brought an end to his hard climbing days, so i guess that enuf reason for me to sew it up and back it up. ohhh yeah and wear a helmet which I dont do enuf of. nic

[Cpt.Caveman]

When I am scared I can really sew it up

[goatboy]

There's an infamous "classic" at Joshua Tree called Double Cross which the locals there call "Pumpkin Head" for the same reason. Easy to peel off, pretty stiff for the 5.7 rating, awkward at the crux -- and many weekend warriors think that since they're climbing fifty feet from their car, that a helmet would be "uncool" to wear -- or even uncool to OWN.

Another story: I was climbing at Suicide Rock (across the valley from Tahquitz Rock in Idyllwild, California). The name "Suicide" seemed apt in the case of Igor, who shakily climbed about 30 feet up, plugged in a cam, pitched off, ripped the piece, and broke his head open like a melon. We evac-ed him to an ambulance, where he told us that he had been at the gear shop that morning with his paycheck -- in one hand he had a helmet, in the other hand, the cam that later ripped. He obviously opted for the cam over the helmet.

Interesting, what some folks consider to be "protection."

Anyway . . . I wear my helmet a lot more than I used to, and am amazed sometimes at the situations in which folks DON'T wear them (i.e. ice-climbing, mountaineering on a popular route below other parties, etc).

[David_Parker]

I wonder if he would have had a hard time fitting that helmet in the crack and clipping it!

[EddieE]

I certainly am not a helmet Nazi, but there's that saying, "If you choose to not wear a helmet, you probably don't have anything to protect anyway."

So here's a question: What do you guys do when someone yells "Rock!" Do you:

1) Look up to see if you can avoid it, and catch it in the teeth?

2) Duck your head knowing that the single baseball sized rock that's Plinko-ing down the gully will land right where you're standing...but on top of your helmet?

[This message has been edited by EddieE (edited 10-02-2001).]

[Bronco]

Eddie:

It depends on if they are screaming at the top of thier lungs "ROOOOOOOCK" i will make myself small against the wall, if it is more of a casual "ehh - rock dude" I will scope it out to either dodge it or take it like a man in the teeth.

[chelle]

As a member of the opposite sex I can assure you that a lot of chicks will think you're smart to wear a helmet. And intact brains will score higher than the lack of helmet head.

In case you were wondering...

[This message has been edited by ehmmic (edited 10-02-2001).]

[jblakley]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt Anderson:

Never trust one of anything

Granted, helmets are useful, but I would have titled this thread "Never trust one of anything", not "Helmets".

The lesson to be learned is never trust one of anything, not wear a helmet.

(just the rantings of a climber trying to rationalize his aversion to helmets . . .)

---

I'm glad to see your disclaimer at the bottom Matt. The only time I consistently wear a helmet is on alpine climbs but I would say wearing one is never a bad idea. You and I both know that even experience and not making mistakes in placing gear does not guarantee avoiding a knock on the noggin.

[mattp]

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'll go for two pieces of gear AND the helmet.

Rocks and carabiners fall from the cliff sometimes, apparently on their own, and even at a sport crag it is possible to catch one's foot in the rope and flip upside down and I just don't understand why so many people will wear helmets when riding their bicycles but not when on the rock.

[MysticNacho]

Good point. I think its because our mothers have always told us to wear helmets on our bikes, and now we tell those damn kids to do the same or risk bursting their mellons on the train tracks. But who told us to wear climbing helmets? No one. In fact, we all know most people who say "bah" to the whole helmet scene. I'm one of them, although I do it with a bad conscious, if that's really an excuse. Although this has started me ah-thinking, I will go on wearing my helmet in almost all circumstances. Not when I'm trying to impress a member of the opposite sex however, I wouldn't want to muss my hair.

[Matt_Anderson]

Never trust one of anything

Granted, helmets are useful, but I would have titled this thread "Never trust one of anything", not "Helmets".

It shouldn't just be a matter of hindsight, this is the only "law" (as opposed to safety factor) I teach friends when they are learning to climb and (imho) far more effective than a helmet at preventing fall related injuries (Whether to wear a helmet due to rockfall danger, of course, is a diffent question that should be decided based on a balance of: your risk aversion level, the comfort of one's helmet, what's above you, and whether or not you're trying to attract members of the opposite sex . . .)

Aside from rockfall danger, if you combine this rule with an awareness of the factors that could lead to you getting flipped upside down I'd choose I'd chose two pieces to stop a ground1 fall over one piece and a helmet everytime.

I see people ignoring this rule or ignorant of this rule all the time. It seems that the quality of climbing gear available and the number of times that people take falls on such gear allows confidence in the unbreakability of gear to dampen the self-preserving queasiness people should get anytime there is only one thing keeping them off the ground.

Case in point: A sport climber clips into a single draw while hanging from the anchors and threading the rope. S/He feels comfortable because there is almost no chance of a well placed, quality bolt or the draw breaking. The danger is from stupid user error, not the gear breaking.

I will make exceptions to this rule when I'm climbing below my limit. At least then, arguably, my body is the second "thing" that I am using.

In the scenario that was the subject of this thread,its not totally clear to me whether he cratered or the rope caught him two feet above the ground. Either way, the scenario supports the never trust one of anything maxim more than the helmet maxim. If the rope cought him, it worked, obviating the need for a helmet. If he cratered, the climber fell twice allready and knew that his climbing ability wasn't going to keep him off the deck. He decided to trust a single unidirectional (apparently a tug upward or outwards from his hand dislodged the piece) anchor. Because there was no redundancey in his system, he cratered. Either way, he didn't land on his head.

The lesson to be learned is never trust one of anything, not wear a helmet.

(just the rantings of a climber trying to rationalize his aversion to helmets . . .)

[Matt]

Has anyone climbed "Pounding the Toad" on Pot Ash Road, Moab, Utah? It is a route name that I remember well because, as I recall, the 1st bolt is 25 feet off the ground and the 2nd bolt is 20 feet above that. If the leader fumbles the clip he will "pound" the toad on the ground with his foot, stopping just above the deck, tapping the dust with his toes as the rope stretches. Gotta love those glued angles. This post made me think of it.

On the way to the crag on Saurday I was first on the scene of a motorcycle accident. The rider had his helmet on and it may have saved his life, but he still did not look good. He was "crooked" and all I could do was call 911 on my phone and wait until the medics came. The image of this motorcyclist stayed in my head the entire time I climbed that afternoon. Subsequently I wore my helmet, even on the easy clip ups that I could probably solo. Food for thought.

IMHO, I'd rather look like a dork with a helmet on then risk bruising my mellon.

[hikerwa]

I gotta say that barring the attraction of the opposite sex, there really is no reason not to wear a helmet. No matter how skilled or prepared you might be for a fall, there are factors that can/will come up that are beyond anyones control that could result in an uncontrolled situation where a severe head injury could occur, and a helmet would lessen the severity of any trauma that could occur.

sean

[terrible_ted]

My best friends Dad was 'bouldering' in a sense, about 4 or 5 years ago. He was on the coast of Oregon (south of Astoria) picking mussels. Now, granted, the greatest objective hazard here is a sneaker wave hitting while your back is to the ocean and sweeping you off to sea, but nonetheless he was also out on slippery rocks. Mind you, he'd been doing this sort of thing for at least 30+ years.

He was headed back to the beach when he slipped and hit his head. Fortunately, someone was there and helped drag him up the beach. It seemed like a minor thing at first, just a little slip on the rocks...

He had a big lump on his head and had a nosebleed. They got him to the hospital. He went downhill fast. After a week of touch-and-go, he pulled through.

For the next two years, he suffered acute double-vision. No driving, glasses wouldn't help, difficulty in getting through doorways, vertigo, splitting migraine headaches - no fun. He also lost his sense of smell.

In the intervening years, his vision has stabilized and he doesn't have the degree of coordination problems he had earlier. Still no smell - and probably never will.

The famous (hah, hah - not really) philosopher Marv Levich asked, "Are we all just brains in vats?"

The answer is, I don't want to find out.

Of course, I have no more problem watching people I don't know climb without helmets than I do watching people ride motorcycles without helmets. Darwin rules! Carpe diem, dude!

-t

[max]

OK, I'll say I don't wear a helmet. I do on alpine climbs, or in more remote places (don't ask for my logic... I'm only submitting my opinions, which do not require logic...). And it's not because they look geeky, it's not because they are awkward... I just don't like them! If someone asked why you don't eat spinach (love it!), you probably wouldn't say "the salycilic adic comines with the tri-nuclaic polymar bases to form..." You'd just say you don't like it. I don't like helmets. Dangerous without? Yep. I'm sure it is. But I'd be safer climbing 5.8 splitters that I could place gear every 3' in. I think what it boils down to is climbing (for me) is about freedom, and freedom to do things safely or dangerously. AND, I much appreciate how the comments so far have been "this is what I do, and this is why" and NOT "people who do (don't do) this are dumb because..." We respect each other's freedom of choice. (now isn't that cute!)

 

[max]

Originally posted by freak:

there are places where one should consider seriously useing a helmet, vantage, and in the alpine.

Wow. That's a bold statement.

 

[Bronco]

The petzl helmet "meteor" is similar to a bicycle helmet with a foam liner. Supposedly only good for one good hit then throw it away and buy a new one. Pretty inconvenient if you are on the 2nd pitch of a 20 pitch alpine climb, if you were to ask me.

[chelle]

I use one of the Petzl helmets. It is lightweight and more comfortable in my experience than the other models.

I got hit on the top of my head with a baseball size rock on Shuksan earlier this year and the helmet did it's job. It does suck that it needs to be replaced, and I'll probably buy a plastic heavy one.

The rock that hit me only put a small dent in the helmet and I have used it on other climbs since. Balancing the replacement cost with whether it still offers reasonable protection...

Bronco - if the Petzl get's so damaged on the 2nd pitch that it shatters and can't offer protection on the other 18 pitches, the climber's probably suffering from a lot more than disappointment that he needs a new helmet.

[ScottP]

quote:

---

Originally posted by EddieE:

So here's a question: What do you guys do when someone yells "Rock!" Do you:

1) Look up to see if you can avoid it, and catch it in the teeth?

2) Duck your head knowing that the single baseball sized rock that's Plinko-ing down the gully will land right where you're standing...but on top of your helmet?

[This message has been edited by EddieE (edited 10-02-2001).]

---

I tend to look up. Probably not a good idea, but then a baseball sized rock travelling at, or near, terminal velocity is probably not going to be stopped by the top of a helment.

 

[Bronco]

ehmmic:

Yes they may be hurting (if they are a baby) but the point was if you have a hard shell and you arent hurt, you can proceed with adequate protection for your fat melon. If you're wearing the bicycling helmet, granted it's better than nothin', but it's probably broken and not going to protect your noggin very well if you take another hit.