keenwesh Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Bottom line; party in front has the right of way. If they don't want to let you climb through, and you can't get around them on another line, wait or bail. bailing off the RNWF after the robbins traverse would be epic, and require leaving pretty much your entire rack. There was another party that we were about to pass but they threw a hissy fit so we stopped and waited for them to rack up and lead past us. about 20 feet up the belayer who had piss poor rope management skills had to spend 10 minutes untying a knot he'd gotten into the lead rope. the leader took 45 minutes to lead the 5.8 chimney, and then I rode the seconds ass as he followed it. they let us pass at big sandy, but then we were stuck behind team epic gumby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfinley Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 While slower parties are frustrating... At least climbers in NA tend be be polite. In Thailand many of the routes share 4 or 5 bolts at the start and the locals consider it totally fair game to wait till you're 3 or more bolts past the split and then climb up and unclip your rope / draws and clip their rope in. As for Europe... All is fair in Europe. Don't be alarmed if a climber yards on your gear or steps on your rope while pushing past you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmace Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 In Thailand many of the routes share 4 or 5 bolts at the start and the locals consider it totally fair game to wait till you're 3 or more bolts past the split and then climb up and unclip your rope / draws and clip their rope in. Seems fair, how many bolts do you need anyways, as for Europe...all I have ever seen was efficient sharing of routes, which some folks in NA could learn, as Bob mentioned. Whats surprising is that they didnt climb through, must be pretty chill folks to just sit and wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Bottom line; party in front has the right of way. If they don't want to let you climb through, and you can't get around them on another line, wait or bail. bailing off the RNWF after the robbins traverse would be epic, and require leaving pretty much your entire rack. Crap. It's painful just reading your story. Sorry for you dudes...damned. Normally you can keep a watch on the route and pick your time, but not really for this route cause if you IAD it and folks are sleeping at the base, you wouldn't see them even if there was light when you started out, which there probably wasn't. I know guys who ask nicely and just climb past if they get a "No". I've yet to do it, but could see it happening in your case.....Wow. 2 of my buddies were on that route when Jose Perera and Dean Potter came blasting up to link it and the Nose IAD. They were moved back out of the way in the chimneys and had stopped to give them clearance as there wasn't much gear used and they were essentially simu-soloing, but said as Dean and Jose got to below them they just said hi and popped around the corner out of sight to climb an off route crack right past them. As far as getting down, is it still that iffy? Cause you'd wind up on the Direct NW Face wouldn't you, and you'd think that others would have gone your way before. That's just a sucky spot to get stuck up high at night, cause you'll be in cold weather most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I like Geoff's story at some wall, I think it was Frog Land in RR... Some euro's cut the line of several parties at the base and the leader says, "Wow, this is nice rock", as he is grabbing it and just continues on up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I like Geoff's story at some wall, I think it was Frog Land in RR... Some euro's cut the line of several parties at the base and the leader says, "Wow, this is nice rock", as he is grabbing it and just continues on up... more like crimson chrysalis, only them boys didn't speak english no nearly so good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 let's not forget Pendleton Ken and company trying to beat a guy leading the corner by climbing little wing and cutting over before it gets good. i think they finished that day by taking the dude's climbing pack by "mistake". and the leader was suffering from Parkinson's. the rr guy was from an earlier trip on cat in hat. he just climbed right in front of us and over the party we were waiting for making a very new follower climb under his rope. the crimson folks just climbed straight up our asses all day and then bailed before the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 let's not forget Pendleton Ken and company trying to beat a guy leading the corner by climbing little wing and cutting over before it gets good. i think they finished that day by taking the dude's climbing pack by "mistake". and the leader was suffering from Parkinson's. I remember that day. Ahhh, the good ole Beatard times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 let's not forget Pendleton Ken and company trying to beat a guy leading the corner by climbing little wing and cutting over before it gets good. i think they finished that day by taking the dude's climbing pack by "mistake". and the leader was suffering from Parkinson's. I remember that day. Ahhh, the good ole Beatard times... Will soon be upon again. Who's coming to the Beacon season opener BBQ at my place, BTW? Specifics TBTD upon opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Will soon be upon again. Who's coming to the Beacon season opener BBQ at my place, BTW? Specifics TBTD upon opening. last one almost involved kenny goign to jail, so who could turn down another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootsandPants Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 bailing off the RNWF after the robbins traverse would be epic, and require leaving pretty much your entire rack. Ah; I'm not really familiar with the route, but after looking at it, I see that this can be frustrating as hell. I was more making generalizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 It's a two way street; slow parties should realize their situation and let a fast party pass (generally), but the fast party should also respect the wishes of the party ahead and not try to jump the line without cooperation from the slow party. Yeah, it sucks when one of the groups isn't cooperating, but as the lower party on route, deal with it. If a slow party isn't letting you pass, and there is no other alternative to get around them, either wait or bail and come back another day. Snaking the line and/or fucking up their climbing by intermediate belay stations etc. is even worse in ethics than not letting a faster party pass. If you do pass, be damn well sure you're faster. Few things would piss me off more than letting a group pass just to be waiting behind them at the next belay. I've been on both ends of the scenario. I've wanted to pass slow teams who wouldn't let me, so I just waited. I was frustrated, but other than me being a little pissed, no safety concerns. They got up earlier than me, so I dealt with it. I've also had a guy pass me, even though I asked him not to (there was a line for the route...wait your fucking turn) and he proceeded to cluster up my line, tangle their rope in mine, and his two followers were fucking with my gear. The rope tangles and idiotic followers (and leader for that matter) were a safety concern. Probably the extreme example, but even if it wasn't clustered, I'd have found it rude. Wake up earlier or come back later. Bottom line; party in front has the right of way. If they don't want to let you climb through, and you can't get around them on another line, wait or bail. well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Treat it like any other wait in line... Be respectful, don't cut without permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason4 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I saw Colin Haley give a talk and slideshow at Backcountry Essentials in Bellingham almost a year ago and he had some excellent advice on how to pass a slow party on route. It was a 3 step process that ended with taking their sleeping pad. If anyone runs into him they should ask for the first 2 steps because I'm not sure that I got them right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadman Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 The wait your turn in line ethic is very American. Euros have a totally different approach. I've seen people unclip gear and clip their own ropes in, pull on other parties gear, basically cruise through without saying a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 The wait your turn in line ethic is very American. Euros have a totally different approach. I've seen people unclip gear and clip their own ropes in, pull on other parties gear, basically cruise through without saying a word. When in Rome, I recon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 None shall pass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 None shall pass! That's what yer wife told me a few years back on das corner... You musta taught her, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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