Ivan: I 1240...GO

[tvashtarkatena]

I basically hate people in general and kids especially, so I want the latter to suffer as much as possible prior to entering adulthood, which seems be about age 45 these days. The Basement Creature has only got 2 more years of public schooling so this thing won't affect him much.

 

Charter schools - an Rfuck idea, no? Which of course means its got a hidden agenda about 400 layers deep, so I'm inclined to wipe my arse with it.

 

Still, I know nothing of the issue other than that my eyes glazed over at a League of Women Voters debate (I was there to get the church ladies to schmoke legal bowls of high grade Washington State Weed). The two screeching harpies, one a dwarf educational blogger (against), the other a lanky tranny with a JD (for), as she helpfully reminded us about 9 times, seemed ready flay each other, so SOMEBODY must give a shite.

 

The Rfucks say 40 states have them, which means fuck all since almost as many states have anti-gay marriage laws thanks to the Beelzeballsuckers.

 

That's why I'm outsourcing my vote to you, Big Man. Yay or Nay?

 

TIA

Edited October 21, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[olyclimber]

[video:youtube]iVaqQe3V498

[ivan]

how ya feel about the voucher system for medicare? pretty similar. charter schools let whitey cut n' run and hide in private (and of course, jesusy) schools that only take the folks they want, leaving the dregs that no one else will take in public schools

 

public schools are the great leveler, pretty much the only time in citizens lives when they actually have to interact on a daily basis w/ folks outside of their narrow world

 

but yeah, like ya said, if the repulifucks are for it, that oughta be all that ya need to know to be against it

[ivan]

i'm voting nay, should that have been unclear

[tvashtarkatena]

Figured as much. The tranny kept talking about 'safeguards'. Hmmm. Why would u need those? Also, pulling the plug on non-performing schools. Now theres a system that cant b rigged!

 

Tranny never mentioned jebus. Now Im pissed.

 

Nay it is, with feeling!

Edited October 21, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[ivan]

[video:youtube]iVaqQe3V498

she'd be a whole lot hawter if she wasn't a fucking corpse...

[ivan]

Figured as much. The tranny kept talking about 'safeguards'. Hmmm. Why would u need those? Also, pulling the plug on non-performing schools. Now theres a system that cant b rigged!

 

Tranny never mentioned jebus. Now Im pissed.

 

Nay it is, with feeling!

schools are thermometers for the communities they serve - vouchers are a modern day dawes act!

[rob]

schools are thermometers for the communities they serve - vouchers are a modern day dawes act!

 

1240 is about charter schools, not voucher systems. Isn't it?

[rob]

charter schools let whitey cut n' run and hide in private (and of course, jesusy) schools that only take the folks they want, leaving the dregs that no one else will take in public schools

 

I'm not sure what I think about this initiative yet but I'm pretty sure charter schools are not private schools. Though, certainly public schools will lose money when kids switch to charter schools. Which might be enough reason to oppose it.

[Off_White]

Rob's right, the washington law is about charter schools, rather than vouchers and private schools. They'll still be public, and cannot be religious, so Jesus is SOL with the current initiative. The teachers union is opposed to the charter schools approach, but I find the idea of being able to more freely innovate with a system that doesn't perform very well under the status quo to be pretty appealing. Why is it so hard to get rid of crappy teachers? When its time for layoffs, why do we get rid of the young teachers with a fire for their occupation and keep the ossified louts all students try to avoid? Geoffry Canada's schools in Harlem are charter schools, and that's not a bad experiment at all. I think we need a model that will allow for more innovation.

 

I'm inclined to vote yes on the current initiative. While the Republicans are no doubt behind it as an end run on unions, I still think trying different options is worth the effort.

[tvashtarkatena]

Taxes paying for schools run by non-profits? Sounds like an mile wide opening for taxes paying for religion (as it is in many other states with charter schools). And boy, has it been in other states.

 

Have charter schools outperformed public? No credible evidence on that one.

 

NO THANKS.

 

If we've got a public school quality issue, fix that.

 

Look at the endorsement list. Pretty short on the charter school side. Yes, I realize the public education system protects its own, but initiatives with practically no endorsements tend to get my NO vote - too narrow a special interest gene pool. It stinks.

 

 

[rob]

Wasn't this bill co-sponsored by a democrat (petigrew). I could give fuck all what the teachers union thinks (sorry Ivan) and they seem to be the only ones against it?

Edited October 21, 2012 by rob

[rob]

My biggest concern is that the public charter schools would effectively be a funding cut for the regular public schools. As pat said, why not just fix the regular public schools? Oh wait, teachers union. It's a tough nut to crack. I wish I had money for private schools, my kids are struggling.

Edited October 21, 2012 by rob

[tvashtarkatena]

Wasn't this bill co-sponsored by a democrat (petigrew). I could give fuck all what the teachers union thinks (sorry Ivan) and they seem to be the only ones against it?

 

Initiatives that are sponsored across both sides of the aisle have a much better chance of survival. Standard procedure if you can work it.

[rob]

The Seattle schools math curriculum, for example, is terrible as my ass. But it sounds like public charter schools would have te same curriculum requirements as dictated by the district. So, what do I gain? Sigh.

[Choada_Boy]

I can explain the Republican agenda: to bring about the Apocalypse and hasten the Second Coming. Seriously.

[ivan]

My biggest concern is that the public charter schools would effectively be a funding cut for the regular public schools. As pat said, why not just fix the regular public schools? Oh wait, teachers union. It's a tough nut to crack. I wish I had money for private schools, my kids are struggling.

w/ respect, i don't think you know what you're talking about - i'm an active union member, and, if anything, our union is pretty damn weak w/ the vast # of members really not involved at all (a microcosm of the larger political landscape, no?) - my own participation as a member involves working w/ administrators throughout my district, and all w/ the main idea of serving the kids, not just maintaining a status quo - an example from this year: implementing a new state-wide evaluation system for both teachers and principals that was created by the legislature in part to address the concerns of the states citizens that "bad teachers" aren't being weeded out (i volunteered to be a guinea pig for the pilot year to help work out the bugs, and the active members of the union were very involved to help form the bill in the first place, despite the unease that the general membership inevitably felt, as all humans do, in the face of change)

 

i don't complain much about the lack of prestige or remuneration that accompanies the profession, b/c i went into it eyes wide shut n' never had strong aspirations for such anyhow - the bottom line is though, if you want to attract huge numbers of exceptional people into the profession, you're probably going to have to make it more attractive (and no matter how much you pay, it's hard to get people to survive the stress of the first few years - jesus, go try it sometime! your memory of school of course is from the students' perspective - holy shit it's different when having to perform over n' over in front of 150 or so folks a day, constantly under the gun, dealing w/ a gazillion different challenges, all on the fly, and often inexplicably involved and entangled in one another)

 

just defining "good teacher" and "good school" is a sisyphean task, one that is highly variably by kid, community and subject

 

the public perception is that most teachers are dipshit deadbeats - i'm approaching 2 decades in the profession now, and while i HAVE known a few folks that fit that description, they represent a tiny minority of the total, probably about the same in any other industry

 

what do you think unions have really gotten in the way of that would have made all the difference?

Edited October 21, 2012 by ivan

[KirkW]

You tell 'em Ivan.

 

My GF is a special ed teacher of more than a decade.

 

The problem with our schools is not the teachers and their union. I don't know of too many other jobs out there that pay so little while demanding so much. If every teacher in the country worked nothing more than their contract (paid) hrs and refused to spend a portion of their personal income on necessary supplies because the money isn't in the budget for expensive shit like notebooks, the entire education system would immediately collapse. I don't think most people have a clue just how much is getting done with so little.

 

Of course the future of privately owned prison facilities looks to be a bright one.

[ivan]

would love to spray more on the topic at the moment, but a stack of papers literally a foot high await me - here's to an afternoon of my brood buzzing about me as i was through it all! whatchaya'll doing w/ yer sabbath day?

[rob]

Oh god, see this is the problem. Im not trying to attack teachers or complaina bout their pay or anything like that but i have the temerity to complain about my children being abandoned by my local school district and suddenly its circle the wagons time to defend teachers

 

For the record, i think teachers should be paid more and i didnt mean to sound anti-union per se (im not). i suppose I don't know much about the inner workings of the district as much as i should but what i do know is that my children have been subjected to years of fat, ignorant and rude teachers that seem uneducated themselves, handing out retarded assignments and, as far as i can tell, are teaching my children out of a handbook. There have been some excellent teachers, too, but for the most part even scheduling time to talk to them one-on-one is impossible, ive had one teacher tell me she "doesnt do that."

 

I don't know anything about your school district, but my children's education is really being impacted by terrible administrators and terrible teachers who may be the minority but make significant impact regardless. There seems to be no way to get rid of them as far as I can tell (they're still there) and anyway it wouldn't matter because the curriculum itself is broken (everyday math? Fuck that shit) and nobody in the system seems to even want to work with me in a partnership, it's more like an educational feedlot. Moo

 

Maybe I'm unfair to blame to unions, I'm just a parent and honestly all I know is the end product that I'm receiving, which is a travesty. I'm definitely not anti teacher, I always vote to give them money and the few good teachers my kids have are a great resource to me as we join forces together to educate my children. Wish there were more like that, and I wish they had the freedom to teach their own way rather than saying "sorry it's the curriculum. I hate it too but have to use it" (his own math teacher's words)

 

Peace out!

Edited October 21, 2012 by rob

[rob]

My point was that my local district has been fucking me in the ass so long, their opinion isn't really compelling to me anymore because so many of their other opinions seem retarded. Didn't mean to start a whole "teachers are underappreciated" flame war

[Pete_H]

Admitedly I'm pretty undeducated about this issue, but it seems that charter schools would provide the opportunity for schools that focus on specific areas of interest, like aeronautics, robots, or animal husbandry, and teach a curriculum based around that. And I think that would be cool. I mean, as far as I'm concerned we need more kids who know how livestock procreates.

[ivan]

Admitedly I'm pretty undeducated about this issue, but it seems that charter schools would provide the opportunity for schools that focus on specific areas of interest, like aeronautics, robots, or animal husbandry, and teach a curriculum based around that. And I think that would be cool. I mean, as far as I'm concerned we need more kids who know how livestock procreates.

maybe? i admit, as my drunken OP showed last night, i've yet to educate meself on this specific initiative before voting (got a votenight/datenight set for next weekend though ) - my own district is currently trying to figure out to offer more specific satellite courses and maybe charter schools could fit into that? in theory though, it just seems like it creates more admin and more admin costs while still dealing w/ the same # of kids and cash

[ivan]

Oh god, see this is the problem. Im not trying to attack teachers or complaina bout their pay or anything like that but i have the temerity to complain about my children being abandoned by my local school district and suddenly its circle the wagons time to defend teachers

 

For the record, i think teachers should be paid more and i didnt mean to sound anti-union per se (im not). i suppose I don't know much about the inner workings of the district as much as i should but what i do know is that my children have been subjected to years of fat, ignorant and rude teachers that seem uneducated themselves, handing out retarded assignments and, as far as i can tell, are teaching my children out of a handbook. There have been some excellent teachers, too, but for the most part even scheduling time to talk to them one-on-one is impossible, ive had one teacher tell me she "doesnt do that."

 

I don't know anything about your school district, but my children's education is really being impacted by terrible administrators and terrible teachers who may be the minority but make significant impact regardless. There seems to be no way to get rid of them as far as I can tell (they're still there) and anyway it wouldn't matter because the curriculum itself is broken (everyday math? Fuck that shit) and nobody in the system seems to even want to work with me in a partnership, it's more like an educational feedlot. Moo

 

Maybe I'm unfair to blame to unions, I'm just a parent and honestly all I know is the end product that I'm receiving, which is a travesty. I'm definitely not anti teacher, I always vote to give them money and the few good teachers my kids have are a great resource to me as we join forces together to educate my children. Wish there were more like that, and I wish they had the freedom to teach their own way rather than saying "sorry it's the curriculum. I hate it too but have to use it" (his own math teacher's words)

 

Peace out!

i understand big time - my wife and have been so unsatisfied w/ our local options that we're homeschooling our kids (it's the special ed thing in particular, schools just really don't handle atypical kids well) - i would also say that my methodology w/ my subject is very non-standard - i build my own curriculum entirely and have almost zero use for my district-issued textbook - ironically, this push for tougher evaluation systems is seriously threatening to the iconoclastic approach, which puts huge pressure to conform and be like everybody else

[rob]

Yeah, my district must be stricter than yours -- my son's math teacher was not allowed to deviate from the elementary curriculum at all and actually (privately) recommended that I teach my kids proper division and multiplication of large numbers at home, on my own, but to remember to tell them they had to do it the "Everyday math" way when they sent in homework and did tests. Totally insane.

 

Anything that allows teachers more independence from the district sounds like a great thing to me, is this what charter schools are for?

 

But I see signs around my neighborhood saying, "don't be charter fooled" so I'm suspicious. When it comes to education, at this point I trust no one.

 

I'd be interested in your opinion once you read up on the legislation. I asked two of the teachers I've worked well with and they both said the problem was that charter schools still have the same curriculum requirements as public schools, so anything gained?

 

Good on you for taking matters into your own hands, sounds like you have your own challenges, too

Edited October 21, 2012 by rob