What is the best EPOXY for bolting?

[AOK]

I'm getting prepared to put up some new routes at a crag I found in the gorge.

 

I want this route to be really safe so I'm buying some very nice hardware from Petzl but my question is,

 

What is the best EPOXY on the market that I can buy to bolt new routes? It needs to be non-reactive to water and be absolutely bomber so nobody gets hurt.

 

Thanks in advance everyone and I'll look forward to some answers to these questions. Peace.

Edited September 28, 2012 by AOK

[num1mc]

Hilti, Simpson, Powers and several other manufacturers all make high quality epoxy anchoring systems for use in concrete. These should all be suitable for your use.

 

As someone who has placed literally thousands of epoxy concrete construction anchors, it is crucial that the hole be clean.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2012 by num1mc

[boadman]

I've never put in a glue-in. How do you make sure that the epoxy is properly mixed, and that you've got the right about of epoxy in the hole? Also, if you're bolting ground up or on a severely over-hanging face, and there isn't good pro, it seems like you'd have to wait a day in between bolts or something?

[Off_White]

You're correct, epoxy is not for lead bolting.

 

For the OP, what's leading you to use glue in bolts rather than good stainless hardware? I've done a little bit of it on a slab that runs with water 9 months out of the year, and its a messy process that leaves hardware that cannot be easily replaced. Nothing lasts forever.

[AOK]

I have found an undeveloped gem in the heart of the Pacific Northwest, tucked away on private farm land. I grew up in the area and have close ties to the family who has given me permission to bolt this amazing new spot.

 

In all of my research thus far it says gluing in stainless steel bolts is better for equipping a route then a bolt alone. I want it to be safe as I'll be the first one climbing the route. Furthermore, I would hate to leave shitty bolts for the next climber.

 

I am using Petzl stainless steel anchors and bolts with chains at the top for top roping accessibility. (12mm)

 

Though I have never bolted a route I have been researching it for months now. I've read the literature, online information, etc. I will do a good job but that looming fear is always in the back of my mind so any more information is appreciated.

 

Peace.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2012 by AOK

[kurthicks]

Use 1/2" stainless steel Powers Power-bolts with stainless hangers for a long, long lasting anchor--that is replaceable.

 

epoxy and expansion bolts do not mix.

[AOK]

Cool, so 12mm expansion bolt ought to do then... I'm glad I opted for the correct size-it just made sense and feels safer.

 

I am planning on using a Petzl hand drill... Has anyone had experience hand drilling routes? I know I can expect a LOT MORE WORK and TIME... But I can't afford a nice drill at this point.

 

I will clean the bolt holds with a turkey baster and steel pipe cleaner/brush.

 

Should do the trick and thanks again for advice. Veterans who enjoy bolting are always welcome to comment. Peace.

[lummox]

Use 1/2" stainless steel Powers Power-bolts with stainless hangers for a long, long lasting anchor--that is replaceable.

Exactly

[billcoe]

Best glue depends on what rock you are going into. As is noted above, pretty safe bet that any of the 2 part construction epoxy, such as the Simpson sold at Home Depot, will be bomber around here.

 

Here are some links I drug up in 2007 when I was investigating it. Hope that they all work. As you appear to know, cleanliness of the hole is critical as Num1mc reiterates. So is giving enough room for the glue.

 

Link 1 -Austrailia sandstone bolting thesis (most academic)

 

Link 2 -Safer cliffs.org

 

Link 3 - epoxy data

 

Link 4 -Greek limestone Bueller bolt mods

 

Link 5 - Soft Sandstone Rock Anchor Testing at Swinburne SA

 

Link 6 - Safeclimbing.org adhesives

 

Link 7 -Safe climbing.org

 

Link 8- Red River gorge Sandstone

[keenwesh]

I don't know shit about bolting but I'm going to chime in anyway.

 

I thought epoxy bolts were the shit because when it came time to replace them all that was needed was a propane torch. Heat up the bolt which melts the epoxy and the whole thing slides out of the hole, ready for a new glue in once it cools down a bit.

 

I'm not putting in bolts, but if I was and used this technique to replace a hypothetical bolt 30 years later WOULD I DIE?

[snoboy]

I am planning on using a Petzl hand drill... Has anyone had experience hand drilling routes? I know I can expect a LOT MORE WORK and TIME... But I can't afford a nice drill at this point.

 

Can you preplan all your placements and rent a drill for a day? Hand drilling will suck, and will not make as good a placement if you are using expansion bolts.

[hanman]

A couple things-

 

Most manufacturers recommend using a nylon rather than steel brush as the steel can polish the bore and lessen the bond strength. Always go with the manufacturers recommendations.

 

Hand drilling a 12mm x 4 or 5" hole is brutal labor. Particularly with a RocPeck. Perhaps allow up to 1.5 hours per bolt in good rock depending on the stance. With a hammer of appropriate (heavy) size, I would expect to destroy one RocPeck per every 3 holes.

 

Cheers,

 

MH

[AOK]

A couple things-

 

Most manufacturers recommend using a nylon rather than steel brush as the steel can polish the bore and lessen the bond strength. Always go with the manufacturers recommendations.

 

Hand drilling a 12mm x 4 or 5" hole is brutal labor. Particularly with a RocPeck. Perhaps allow up to 1.5 hours per bolt in good rock depending on the stance. With a hammer of appropriate (heavy) size, I would expect to destroy one RocPeck per every 3 holes.

 

Cheers,

 

MH

 

Okay, so that plan is out! Luckily I have found messages in my inbox from experienced climbers/developers who are wanting to help develop the hidden area. (Its off the beaten path for sure.) AND THEY HAVE EQUIPMENT!!!

 

All I have to do is heal, travel from pdx to the area, buy bolts and anchors, and learn from some experienced climbers on the best way to place bolts etc... I'm STOKED!

 

Also, they have promised to let me climb first to name the routes and the grading will come when we all climb the routes and decide on what they should be.

 

SO RAD!

Edited October 1, 2012 by AOK

[Alex]

I've placed a reasonable amount of bolts and here is some more advice for you

 

please please please don't hand drill if your intent is to make safe placements.

 

epoxy will only make it harder to service or replace well-placed hardware later. you really shouldn't need it.

 

you're going to want to use a pipe cleaner and blow tube and thoroughly clean each hole so there is no dust, glue or no glue

 

depending on the bolt, you might need a torque wrench to torque the bolt/nut to the correct tension.

[AOK]

I've placed a reasonable amount of bolts and here is some more advice for you

 

please please please don't hand drill if your intent is to make safe placements.

 

epoxy will only make it harder to service or replace well-placed hardware later. you really shouldn't need it.

 

you're going to want to use a pipe cleaner and blow tube and thoroughly clean each hole so there is no dust, glue or no glue

 

depending on the bolt, you might need a torque wrench to torque the bolt/nut to the correct tension.

 

Thanks Alex! I know in placing bolts I am taking responsibility for myself and the climbing community as well. I take this very seriously and will place SAFE bolts.

 

That being said, I understand cleaning the bolt holes is EXTREMELY important, as is a torque wrench.(No epoxy necessary now that I know)

 

These routes are going to be solid and with the help of some more 'seasoned' climbers I am excited to share this new spot with the community.

 

Thanks again for all the advice everyone!

Respects

Edited October 2, 2012 by AOK