Rad Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) These are fairly objective, though ability comes into play as well. Snakedike is a good example. The route is 5.7, the 5.7 cruxes are well protected, and the super runout terrain is on 5.2 or 5.easy ground where a solid 5.7 leader is very unlikely to fall. I am with you but I am not sure the above is entirely consistent ("ability comes in to play"). Although I don't remember the climb very well, Snake dike is R rated. You're right, Snakedike does have an R rating. Edited June 1, 2012 by Rad Quote
Plaidman Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 is this a real question???? Don't question our questions! Quote
Plaidman Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Runout is a state of mind. What State would that be in?....... I was wondering where my mind went? Quote
Ed_Hobbick Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Your run out when the fall would be of a distance greater than you really care to think about in a place where a fall has some probability of occurring. My two cents, take it for what it's worth. Quote
montypiton Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Scorpio at Smith Rock was run out for me. I was looking at a groundfall from the end of the unprotected second pitch. Those first two pitches were short enough that they could be done as a single pitch now, but you'd still be looking at a groundfall from 50+ meters... unless someone has placed a bolt since the '70s. I'd have to say that feeling run out, for me, depends on the combination of the likelihood, and consequence, of falling from my position. Fall-factor comes into play, as well. Thirty feet unprotected at the end of a sewn-up sixty-meter pitch feels way less run out to me than thirty feet of unprotected climbing immediately from the belay. I agree that it's a question well worth discussing Quote
chirp Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 A bolt at chest level. *Like* Anything in the Needles of South Dakota. Quote
Ed_Hobbick Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Of course then there are places where your "Lookin at a ground fall" and this is different then being "run-out" because the hazard there is objective where as when I'm run out, I'm not really sure what would happen and don't want to find out and don't really want to think about it nor do I really have time to, so I just focus on climbing. Edited June 2, 2012 by Ed_Hobbick Quote
Rainman Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 A runout is when you are sure you might fall, and the fall could be bad, but your a long way from the car so a fall is not an option, so you just suck it up and dont't fall, just like you used to when you were younger, before you knew you won't live forever because some of your friends have died doing what they love, but you'll remember it as a runout and you probably won't do this route again! Quote
JosephH Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 I have to agree by and large in that to me a runout is a calculated risk; staring at a groundfall is almost always either a mistake, an error in judgment, or both. Quote
mattp Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 In a typical crag climbing setting staring at a groundfall is generally the product of starting and not backing down from a climb that doesn't have good pro near the start. It is not necessarily a mistake or an error in judgment to decide to carry on toward that first good placement but may only be "calculated risk." Funny story about a groundfall: On the first attempt, the leader falls from 25 feet up and breaks his leg. He heals, goes back, and pulls the move. Partner says: OK. I know you are badass. Can we place a bolt there now? Answer is no and a bolt was not added for another 20+ years. Sometimes the calculated risk was calculated by somebody else. Quote
JosephH Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 I don't know, I guess I don't really consider getting to your first piece a [technical] 'ground fall' situation per se, or if it is, then I go back to it likely being an error in judgment even getting on the route. What I do consider a real groundfall situation is finding yourself any distance above the first piece with that potential - i.e. once you're officially established on the route proper. But just getting established on the route? I'd say that's kind of stretching the traditional use of the term. Getting established on a route is more a matter of bouldering with the accompanying proviso of picking your poison wisely (in that 'don't leave the ground if you aren't prepared to deal' sort of way). Quote
kevbone Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 To me runout has nothing to do with "if you might get hurt". It is simply a distance between you and your last piece of pro. Quote
Off_White Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Runout is like obscenity: I know it when I see (feel) it. Dru, thanks for the Speedway link, that thing looks beautiful. Quote
Drederek Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 The distance required for something to be runout is inversely proportionate to difficulty and percieved reliability of the last piece for me. But it can cease to be runout when a jug or a good stance appears. Even a crappy piece can mitigate it a bit. Like Off said, you know it when you feel it. Quote
Plaidman Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Even a crappy piece can mitigate it a bit. I call those mental pieces. I usually scream down to my partner "IT PROBABLY WON'T HOLD A FALL". Then proceed saying to myself "Don't F-ing fall, CLIMB!" Quote
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