Dru Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 See... iceworms are only found on glaciers not in your average snow patch. Mid latitude temperate glaciers (including all in the Lower 48)ar eprojected to vanish in the next 50 years or so due to global warming.... That will probably kill all the iceworms in the Lower 48 SO - could the US Endangered Species Law be used to force implementation of a stricter Kyoto Protocol, in order to reduce global warming and protect endangered iceworm habitat? (And glacial ice climbs for climbers as an unexpected side benefit?) Just wondering.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: S Mid latitude temperate glaciers (including all in the Lower 48)are projected to vanish in the next 50 years or so due to global warming.... really? good thing they keep finding new ones in Montana ... didn't they find 50 brand new glaciers last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySanchez Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 On the bright side, without glaciers we wouldn't have to worry about falling into those pesky crevasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Don't feed the slots! They get acustomed to human food and start to get aggressive! [ 06-19-2002, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: jordop ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 "SO - could the US Endangered Species Law be used to force implementation of a stricter Kyoto Protocol, in order to reduce global warming and protect endangered iceworm habitat? (And glacial ice climbs for climbers as an unexpected side benefit?)" One could make a convincing arguement for the cyclic nature of the earth's temperature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 It's all a cluster fuck. The Arctic ocean is predicted to be ice-free for part of the year within 50 years. Alaska has an average temperature that has increased seven degrees in the last 30 years. The largest forest kill by beetles has occured reportedly because of this warming (it's on the Kenai, and fire insurance can't be had there anymore). Songbirds and mosquitoes are in parts of Nunavat where no one has seen them before. The days of iceworms are numbered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Collins Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 When I was on Overcoat Glacier two weeks ago there were gajillions of ice worms out there. There is a fair amount of information about them on google.com. Birds were hopping about on the snow picking them up. [ 06-19-2002, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Mike Collins ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressivepedestrian Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 SO - could the US Endangered Species Law be used to force implementation of a stricter Kyoto Protocol, in order to reduce global warming and protect endangered iceworm habitat? Ha! Ha! Ha! Ho! Ho! Ho! Good one Dru!!!! As if Dubya and friends weren't in the White House! You crack me up dude!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindude Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Damn! I think you're really on to something, Dru. Contrary to aggressive and sal, sounds to me like this could become a real juggernaut...I can think of all kinds of doctoral theses and continuing studies, grants and monies provided for such, further fund-raising for new specialized enviro sub-groups ("Save the Iceworms!", iceworm rights activists, iceworm eco-terrorists), PAC groups, etc., leading to influence of new legislation and...the SAVING of our glaciers! I wanna continue to climb on alpine and glacier ice until I'm too old to swing my tools! And I want my children to, too! Go for it Dru, we're behind ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 20, 2002 Author Share Posted June 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by fern: quote:Originally posted by Dru: S Mid latitude temperate glaciers (including all in the Lower 48)are projected to vanish in the next 50 years or so due to global warming.... really? good thing they keep finding new ones in Montana ... didn't they find 50 brand new glaciers last year? average size of those glaciers 100 square feet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 That's it I am making my next three avatars * IceWorm Horsecock and Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 Here is an iceworm homepage link1 and some more funny stuff about iceworms. [ 06-24-2002, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Dru ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfort Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 "Active iceworms have not been observed during the daylight hours." ??? During the daylight hours is the only time I've ever seen them. "If a human finger touches an iceworm, it will instantly die from the heat." hmm.... ice worm movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 Yeah, what the hell.... obviously you cant get a research grant to study iceworms so the info out there is full of factoids with little truth to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Hey Dru! Why hasn't Canada ratified Kyoto? Has it even been submitted to your parliment? Maybe it's because your govt sees it as the joke it really is. Only difference is GW has the balls to come right out and say it while the "smug" Canadians let us take the heat. ....I think they're GLAD we're holding out!...takes some of the political heat off of themselves at home. Please go to http://unfccc.int/resource/kpstats.pdf to see a list of countries who see fit to judge the USA on this matter, but are themselves hypocrites. And please don't respond with the usual statistics....USA consumes XX% of the world's resources, yet has only XX% of the population, blah, blah. ...Last time I checked we were almost 40% of the worlds economy. By the way; where did you get your "50 years and glaciers in the lower 48 are gone" data? I think you might have read a few too many Greenpeace junk mailers. ...And if you're really looking at ways to twist the system; I always thought the ADA could be used effectively to temper the Wilderness Act or the ESA. [ 06-24-2002, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 he likes his worms with his salty goo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 25, 2002 Author Share Posted June 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: Hey Dru! Why hasn't Canada ratified Kyoto? Has it even been submitted to your parliment? Maybe it's because your govt sees it as the joke it really is. Only difference is GW has the balls to come right out and say it while the "smug" Canadians let us take the heat. ....I think they're GLAD we're holding out!...takes some of the political heat off of themselves at home. Please go to http://unfccc.int/resource/kpstats.pdf to see a list of countries who see fit to judge the USA on this matter, but are themselves hypocrites. And please don't respond with the usual statistics....USA consumes XX% of the world's resources, yet has only XX% of the population, blah, blah. ...Last time I checked we were almost 40% of the worlds economy. By the way; where did you get your "50 years and glaciers in the lower 48 are gone" data? I think you might have read a few too many Greenpeace junk mailers. ...And if you're really looking at ways to twist the system; I always thought the ADA could be used effectively to temper the Wilderness Act or the ESA. You know I started this whole thread to see if I could troll myself a Fairweather and it took a few days, but, I GOT'UM!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Not sure about the 50 years statement, but mass balance measurements in the north cascades have shown that 10% of the entire volume of the N. Cascades glaciers has disappeared over the past 17 years. Perhaps you could extrapolate from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 25, 2002 Author Share Posted June 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: where did you get your "50 years and glaciers in the lower 48 are gone" data? I think you might have read a few too many Greenpeace junk mailers. statistic cited in Sapiano, Harrison & Echelmeyer, J. Glaciol. V. 44 no. 146 pp. 119-135, and elsewhere. I summarized it as "50 years more or less". see original article for error bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: quote:Originally posted by Fairweather: where did you get your "50 years and glaciers in the lower 48 are gone" data? I think you might have read a few too many Greenpeace junk mailers. statistic cited in Sapiano, Harrison & Echelmeyer, J. Glaciol. V. 44 no. 146 pp. 119-135, and elsewhere. I summarized it as "50 years more or less". see original article for error bars. Ha ha Fairweather, how's that hook feel in your mouth. I'm sure all the science you agree with is free from political agendas unlike the science you don't agree with. Don't you think it's interesting how tobacco companies used to be able to find lots of scientists that thought cigarettes were harmless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by AlpineK: quote:Originally posted by Dru: quote:Originally posted by Fairweather: where did you get your "50 years and glaciers in the lower 48 are gone" data? I think you might have read a few too many Greenpeace junk mailers. statistic cited in Sapiano, Harrison & Echelmeyer, J. Glaciol. V. 44 no. 146 pp. 119-135, and elsewhere. I summarized it as "50 years more or less". see original article for error bars. Ha ha Fairweather, how's that hook feel in your mouth. I'm sure all the science you agree with is free from political agendas unlike the science you don't agree with. Don't you think it's interesting how tobacco companies used to be able to find lots of scientists that thought cigarettes were harmless. Please AK, The similarity between the tobacco company "scientists" and human-causation global warming scientists are that they both represent a minority viewpoint. Last year 6000 members of the American Academy of Sciences sent GW a letter supporting the theory of human caused global warming. The media reported this with great fare....only they forgot to report that another 15,000 members refused to sign the letter declaring that no direct link could be established. I think it is you AK, who picks and choses his science. And as for Dru.....trolling; my ass. In all likelihood you weren't even aware your home country was balking on Kyoto. Why don't you petition your rep up there in the great white north before you cry about iceworms down here in the USA? .....and IF this was really just an elaborate ruse to lure me into your tawdry web of pointless winter-time debate....well then, you got me you crazy Canuk. [ 06-25-2002, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Is your face turning red F? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 26, 2002 Author Share Posted June 26, 2002 FW the reason I suggested the USA use the EPA to force Kyoto Implementation was because USA have EPA and we dont But yeah mainly I posted this just cause I knew when you read it you wouldnt be able to resist spewing some oil company "tobacco science". Hooked Ya Good!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Look, in the best case, we misinterpreted the data, and global warming has nothing to do with human interaction with the environment. Is it really going to kill us if we lower our emissions anyways? I really don't see this putting the US at a disadvantage globally. We already enjoy so much that others do not. And what if we were right about global warming afterall? That's a big risk to just dismiss. To simply write off the human component to the present-day warming trend and to spread this stuff around is irresponsible, at best. The science is there, the CO2 to warming relationship is undeniable, and anyone who takes the time to look at it objectively would agree. Since the Industrial Revolution, CO2 emissions have skyrocketed. Isn't it worth considering, that just maybe we might be responsible for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 blah, blah, blah....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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