fightin'

[keenwesh]

So I just got back from a climbing buddies house party.

 

I only knew my buddy, and so I was just hanging out and being friendly, ended up playing beerpong with this cute girl (I figure she must be in her late 20's, pretty exciting for a 19 year old, practically milf status) anyway before the game can get going at all this dude starts talking shit to me (younger brother of the girls ex boyfriend). the guy is maybe 5'8" and 160. I'm 6'6' and 200. was I right in not kicking the shit out of him in someone else's house and giving him multiple chances to not look like a fool? the dude slammed me up against a window, breaking it in the process (I offered to replace it). I continually told him to back off, I didn't know him and didn't want to make a scene, but he kept on going at me. should I have just swung at him and broken his stupid little skull, or was my decision to let him call me a pussy/faggot the right one? the guy was trying to fight me for at least 45 minutes. I would have left earlier, but I figured he'd just follow me out of the party and I'd end up having to kick the shit out of him in the street. (dealing with cops at 3 am isn't very chill, especially with a body at your feet)

 

lets hear your best barroom brawl stories. Should douchebags be met head on with their uncalled for aggression or not? I want to know...

[akhalteke]

Tell ya what hommes, there are two things that I would like to share which may be applicable in your situation:

 

1) You NEVER know what the hell someone can do or has. 12 year olds with AK's is an unrealistic example for you, but dudes carry knives, guns and brass nuks. Be careful.

 

2) If a guy is simply talking shit, pushing like a bitch, let him be the asshole. If he swings, pushes you INTO A GLASS WINDOW ect. Fuck him up or GTFO.

 

These two points are often at odds so you can see where it gets complicated. Just remember, you never know what kind of a psycho, delinquent the guy is. Nowadays, you might err on the walk away side of things. If a guy gets that violent with you I would suggest walking away. If not, kick his ass; hard and then pick him up and shake his hand. DO NOT let a guy push you around like that.

[keenwesh]

I was just waiting for him to swing, but the guy never did. I don't want to throw the first punch even if they're asking for it.

This can probably all be blamed on the imbalance in the male and female population in bozeman, where playing pong with a girl is that easily interpreted as an act of war.

 

haha the guy said he was "calling me out for having my hands on her" I guess passing a ping pong ball is really intimate contact.

[DPS]

My wife had a friend who's boyfriend was a linebacker at Michigan State. Biggest dude I've ever met. He was training to break the world record in bench press which was many hundreds of pounds and he was getting close. He said he couldn't go into bars because dudes would try to start fights with him to see how tough either he or they were. Maybe it was that sort of thing? Some drunk or high dude deciding he is a tough guy and wanting to prove it. However, you are an adult and getting into brawls can land you in jail with charges. Nobody needs that. Best thing is to say "ok tough guy, I'm just going to leave so nobody goes to the hospital or jail tonight". It may not prove you are tougher, but it proves you are smarter.

Edited April 29, 2012 by DPS

[akhalteke]

I was just waiting for him to swing, but the guy never did. I don't want to throw the first punch even if they're asking for it.

This can probably all be blamed on the imbalance in the male and female population in bozeman, where playing pong with a girl is that easily interpreted as an act of war.

 

haha the guy said he was "calling me out for having my hands on her" I guess passing a ping pong ball is really intimate contact.

 

First punch can end it...

[ivan]

i win over all comers by force of my award-winning personality

[Coldfinger]

Kinda seems like you need to find some new friends, or at least write that scene off, kinda hard to believe nobody there stepped in. Whoever threw it seems rather dickish.

 

Any possibility the whole party was gonna team up on you?

[Mtguide]

I think you did just exactly the right thing, and that your self-awareness and self-control is admirable. I trained in various disciplines in martial arts from my early teens, almost 17 years in all, and all of my teachers constantly admonished us to avoid fighting if at all possible. One teacher used to say "...if you have to run 15 blocks to avoid a fight, do it. If there is life and limb at risk, please call the police; stepping in yourself will almost always result in your own arrest and can even lead to your being blamed and even prison time, if someone you fight with suffers permanent injury or death. DO NOT FIGHT. The ONLY excuse for engaging, is in the case of unavoidable confrontation, such as being trapped by an outnumbering force in a dead-end alley. And even then, a true martial artist will find a way to escape."

 

Another teacher used to say, at the end of every class, "Remember always that we train to gain self-discipline and confidence, to calm the heart and mind, and not to promote or enable violence of any kind. Greet all with compassion, generosity, and kindness. Peace, I say; peace, peace, and yet again, PEACE."

 

Mahatma Ghandi, the founder/creator of non-violence, recognized that in certain cases, there ARE limits to non-violence. Ghandi used to tell his followers, "You should pursue non-violent means as far as they will take you, in all circumstances. However, IF, and only if, you have completely exhausted all attempts at non-violence, and are still confronted with imminent violence and the threat of death, then, the man who hesitates to defend his home and family by the use of violence is a coward."

 

Now, that really does mean that there must be NO other choice. You definitely continued to have other choices available to you, and you wisely took them. Furthermore, who do you really think ended up looking like an idiot, a witless fool, a total jerk nutcase and an asshole, in front of this attractive woman? Who was the truly the weakest, the one most lacking in self-understanding and inner confidence, the one of least skill? Surely you realize the answer to this question, and my guess is that not only have you not lost one bit of respect in the eyes of this woman, but that you'll have another chance, in better circumstances, later on, if there's anything of substance to her.

 

And, if she doesn't have that kind of quality, then you might be better off in the long run, as well. If this woman likes to hang out around nasty characters and trouble, she's nothing but big trouble herself, no matter how good-looking she might be.

 

Choose your friends and acquaintances carefully, stay out of dangerous situations, and constantly hone and develop your intuition and ability to sense and recognize even the hint of trouble. There are always other alternatives, many possibilities, to one whose heart and mind, as well as eyes and hand, are open.

 

I'm very grateful and fortunate to have had the teachers I did. In later years, I worked all over the west in logging camps, on heavy construction projects, on the waterfront, and spent thirteen years as a working open range cowboy in nine western states, BC, Alberta, and northern Mexico. And while most of the people I met in those years were fine folks, there were a lot of rough ones, too. Yet I've never had a single fight, never thrown any kind of punch or kick, or had to fire a shot in anger. And most of the time wound up having a friendly beer or whiskey, and even made a number of really good friends.

 

Humor, good will, friendliness are your best weapons. Ivan has the right idea, and said it in so few words, the mark of a truly wise man.

 

Just one more thing; if you are faced with no choice but to fight, then DO NOT wait for the opponent(s) to strike the first blow. Immediately take the fight right to him, or them, as swiftly and forcefully as possible, make every action count, and do not stop until you can walk away safely. NEVER allow anyone to take the first action in a real fight. In sparring or practice, it's certainly OK, but not in the real thing. There are almost never second chances in real life.

 

Edited April 29, 2012 by Mtguide

[Dane]

Some good comments. The best is likely "you never know what someone else brings to the party". And I don't weapons but skill.

 

The flip side is having the skill means you can decide when and where to use it. Your choice. And really the real "power" in any situation.

 

Law Enforcement? Something you really need to think about these days. If you think a punch needs to be thrown, be sure to throw the first one. And don't go in light. Things generally go down hill rapidly from that. These days DV calls (which is what you would have been labeled) typically REQUIRE someone or all involved go to jail. Throw the first punch and it gets really hard to articulate to a LEO/Judge/jury how you were innocent in all of this. Which, trust me you will be required to do a number of times. You REALLY want to past the first "smell test" of the arriving LEO's interview. His original notes are what the Prosecutor, Judge and jury will eventually look at. The key is to be able to articulate the incident well and why you are totally innocent. But not making first contact generally will have you coming in second physically if your opponent is even remotely skilled/experienced. Even with a disparity of force between a 200# guy and a 160# guy.

 

Flip side to that is any use of force where LE is involved, will also immediatly look at that same disparity of force/size/age between you and him. Automatically, until proven other wise, BIG guy will be the guilty one. SOP LEO script for a violent confrontation.

 

You did the right thing, no harm no foul. Words aint going to hurt you even if they do sting a bit. And the less you say the less likely you'll provoke the situation further. A window is trival compared to the loss of your civil rights long term and the risk of serious injury. (any physical confrontaion risks SERIOUS physical injury)

 

"Choose your friends and acquaintances carefully, stay out of dangerous situations, and constantly hone and develop your intuition and ability to sense and recognize even the hint of trouble. There are always other alternatives, many possibilities, to one whose heart and mind, as well as eyes and hand, are open."

 

Well said, not always that easy to do between 15 and 35. But really good advice. "I like "drop the burrito and walk away" or my favorite, "the Nike defense", better though

 

I've seen what can be done with a ping pong ball at a really good party....some scary shit! You are lucky itwas just a window

 

[DPS]

Not to mention you were underage beerpong playing. Add that to the list of charges.

 

Another thought regarding skill/weapons etc, a lot of the time it doesn't come down to what someone can do, its what they are willing to do. Some folks have a complete disregard for legal/moral consequences and that is partially what makes them very dangerous.

Edited April 29, 2012 by DPS

[Dane]

Drunk and disorderly, 4th degree assault, 4th degree criminal mischief (the window) and minor in Possession.

 

I'd be really pissed and find something else to stack on there just for the amount of paperwork required. May be "being stupid" for still being there

 

Oh, and I forgot. There are 1/2 dozen of really fun, easy to learn, very effective, single strike, fight stoppers" that can be used to end this kind of nonsense. They leave no marks generally and draw almost no attention, other than the poor soul on the recieving end. Worth getting that kind of education imo if you like beer pong.

[keenwesh]

Kinda seems like you need to find some new friends, or at least write that scene off, kinda hard to believe nobody there stepped in. Whoever threw it seems rather dickish.

 

Any possibility the whole party was gonna team up on you?

 

Oh this guy was a total lone ranger, everyone was telling him to back off. A couple dudes told him that they were going to kick the shit out of him if he didn't cut it out. The entire time I was just trying to diffuse the situation, introducing myself, asking him what his problem with me was (you're a faggot). Telling him to mellow, no one is trying to fight right now. Having to deal with the cops was the last thing I wanted to have to do, so I just took most of it and tried to talk him down. I think I handled the situation as well as I could.

 

Fighting him just wasn't worth it, like even if I did kick his ass, then what? I fought some dude over the fact I was playing pong with some woman. so stupid. I'm not gonna gain any friends going that route.

[keenwesh]

I don't know if you're getting the impression that this was some kind of super sketchy rowdy party, it was not. like maybe 30 people hanging out having a good time, but still reserved, no naked dancing or crazy shit like that. That is why I was so surprised when someone was so suddenly up in my face. A brawl would have been completely out of place.

[genepires]

you need new friends that have naked dancing party with tons of crazy shite. You are still young and will be doing the reserved chill parties for way too long starting in a decade or so.

[Dane]

"like maybe 30 people hanging out having a good time, but still reserved, no naked dancing or crazy shit like that"

 

Ah, so that is the real problem. The 160# kid came to pardddddddieeeeeeee. No party happening obviously so he needed to start his own. Had that happen a few times in Butte. I'm tell ya beer pong can be some dangerious shit.

[keenwesh]

beautiful Butte. That angel or whatever overlooking the massive portal to hell is so reassuring.

 

the fact that the naked and crazy days will eventually have to end saddens me. I will carry that torch for as long as I am able. I don't want to be that old dude swinging his dick around in public, even though he's probably having an absolutely awesome time.

[Coldfinger]

you need new friends that have naked dancing party with tons of crazy shite. You are still young and will be doing the reserved chill parties for way too long starting in a decade or so.

 

Looks like Gene is looking for a new friend (Keenwesh) for naked dancing and shit.

[E-rock]

Man, I sure don't miss being 19.

[lummox]

Open hand bitch slap the fool!

[Maine-iac]

Check out this video:

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2bc_1300257828

 

If you are going to fight- lay the fucker out. No excuses.

 

BUT like everybody says choose the fight wisely. At a party where you arn't good friends with everybody there and they are the odd one out, sure maybe... but when it is a mixed crowd it typically isnt worth getting anything going.

 

Tell the guy to STFU if that doesnt work and the group isnt about to remove him from the party it might be best to walk away.

 

The big thing that Dane and a few others pointed out is be careful if the police get involved. Even if you are fully in the right you could get ass rapped by the law. Best to have the police on your side. If you have to leave the party and the kid follows you out wanting to start something- get the police involved or lay the fucker out.

 

I work closely with the police and when they want something accomplished it happens.

 

 

A story of my own, a bunch of my buddies and I were all drinking beers on our stoop, with the front door open and music going. It looked like a rager because of the people outside and the tunes, but it was just 10 or 15 of us. It was a halloween gameday (UO versus USC) and the police were everywhere. These two guys showed up on our stoop and started to get pushy with the women around. They were told to leave by the owners. They didn't, one got ejected from the staircase. At this point a state trooper was stopped at a traffic light right across the street. The owner seeing this makes it known to the other guy (back against the road) to leave and the kid kept running his mouth. The trooper saw what was going on and pulled a Uturn and as he is getting out of the car, again my friend (without touching the other guy) told the guy to get off his property. The kid told him to fuck off and pushed him. At this point a Navy Seal looking Trooper stepped right in front of the kid and asked to have a little chat.... Like I said before, when the police have an agenda it gets done.

[Coldfinger]

Good points on the PO-Lice....

 

Remembering the good old days, we'd get a ride home and not to jail, kinda feel bad for today's youths.

 

When faced with that kinda crapola I've either laughed at the idiot, left, or just let him no I ain't giving an inch. You'd be surprised how effective making those types feel self conscious can be.

 

No point in slugging the dude, my rule is not to fight anybody unless I'd happily kick the crap out of someone based on history and that is a VERY short list.

 

Good to learn Tai Chi (don't laugh) as it actually IS a fighting style, is very gentle, but is VERY effective against drunks who tend to lose control of their momentum and balance. Kinda quiets most of em down when they go flying with so little effort.

[genepires]

you need new friends that have naked dancing party with tons of crazy shite. You are still young and will be doing the reserved chill parties for way too long starting in a decade or so.

 

Looks like Gene is looking for a new friend (Keenwesh) for naked dancing and shit.

 

I think you are projecting your desires and I like warm fingers anyway.

[Buckshot]

I worked in law enforcement for six years. You were assaulted and had every right to defend yourself. Just don't put the boots to him on the deck and you are good to go.

A shove, a chest bump; all are assaults. If he flinches and fakes a punch that makes you brace for impact, thats an assault. Someone with training could take him down without hurting him BUT THAT IS NOT REQUIRED BY THE LAW.

You got to walk away so you can call it a win. But... You know whats going to happen next time he sees you right?

 

[Pete_H]

I would have used my sweet nun-chuck skills or bowstaff skills on him. Maybe just telling him which dojo I train at would have scared him off.

[rob]

this story sounds bullshit. Some guy at your friends party picked on you for 45 minutes and nobody said anything (including your friend, the host) and you just sat there taking it without leaving while everyone watched?

 

A) you're an idiot

B) your friend is an asshole

C) your friend's friends are assholes

Edited April 30, 2012 by rob