selkirk Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 To remove a route in this fashion implicitly assumes that your way is not only the right way, but the only way acceptable for anyone to proceed. And that strikes me as a arrogant and elitist. Ass backwards, fixed it for you... For Maestri to put up a route in this fashion implicitly assumes that your way is not only the right way, but the only way acceptable for anyone to proceed. And that strikes me as a arrogant and elitist. Maestri's actions in no way prevented others from climbing the mountain as they saw fit. Chopping the route remove's a climbing option that was available yesterday. Creation and Destruction should be held to much much higher standards than inaction. Maestri's route fails the standard of creation, but IMHO chopping the route (most any route) fails the standard of destruction as well. Quote
G-spotter Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Maestri's actions in no way prevented others from climbing the mountain as they saw fit. Maestri himself chopped some of his own bolts on the way down, which were later replaced and aided past by Bridwell on the next ascent of the route. And since Maestri didn't climb the mushroom, the route should be called the Bridwell route anyway. Quote
Laughingman Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) This thread is going to get very nasty overnight. I knew the compressor route would in time be chopped in the name of good ethics. It might have been a good idea to ask the locals if chopping the route was ok, given the history and controversy behind the route. Anyone know if they cut the 50 year old, 300lb gas-powered compressor drill off the top of the bolt ladder? Edited January 20, 2012 by Laughingman Quote
JosephH Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Maestri's route fails the standard of creation, but IMHO chopping the route (most any route) fails the standard of destruction as well. Gotta love the logic here: bolts can go in for almost any reason, but there's almost no reason for which they can be removed. Just what is this vaunted "standard of destruction", anyway? Anyone know if they cut the 50 year old, 300lb gas-powered compressor drill off the top of the bolt ladder? I can't seem to get rid of the vision of Slim Pickens riding that particular pig to the ground. Quote
sobo Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Anyone know if they cut the 50 year old, 300lb gas-powered compressor drill off the top of the bolt ladder? I was always under the impression (from what I've read) that Maestri brought the compressor down with him, but left it at the base of the route. It was found by Eric Jones in 1971. Citing: Big Wall Climbing, Doug Scott, Oxford University Press, 1974 Quote
orion_sonya Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Anyone know if they cut the 50 year old, 300lb gas-powered compressor drill off the top of the bolt ladder? I was always under the impression (from what I've read) that Maestri brought the compressor down with him, but left it at the base of the route. It was found by Eric Jones in 1971. Citing: Big Wall Climbing, Doug Scott, Oxford University Press, 1974 Pretty sure Maestri left that thing up there Edited January 20, 2012 by orion_sonya Quote
pink Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 "That climb was stolen from the future. Without all those bolts the history of that marvelous mountain would have been very different. I am convinced that in alpinism how you have climbed is more important than what you have climbed, and I have no doubt that the best are those that leave the least amount of stuff behind." Fukin-a dude! Quote
sobo Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Anyone know if they cut the 50 year old, 300lb gas-powered compressor drill off the top of the bolt ladder? I was always under the impression (from what I've read) that Maestri brought the compressor down with him, but left it at the base of the route. It was found by Eric Jones in 1971. Citing: Big Wall Climbing, Doug Scott, Oxford University Press, 1974 Pretty sure Maestri left that thing up there Very strange, then. I'm looking at a picture of Eric Jones right now on Page 195 in the work I cited by Doug Scott. The caption reads, "Maestri's compressor frame found by Eric Jones in 1971. Leo Dickenson photo" Clearly, we have a distinction to be made here of "frame" vs the actual compressor. Why would these two pieces become separated? And how would the engine remain affixed to Cerro Torre for so many decades with degradable ropes, as shown in your picture? Over 40 years attached to the face of CT with nylon ropes??? Do you know when was your pic taken, OS? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Well, that's one spectacular trundle that's been stolen from me. Quote
pink Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Well, that's one spectacular trundle that's been stolen from me. ur gonna need a longer cheater stick now Quote
Coldfinger Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Still there? Well it was on the headwall before the boys went chopping. Linky Quote
sobo Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Still there? Well it was on the headwall before the boys went chopping. Linky OK, OK, OK, I get it. My book sez the FRAME was found at the base in 1971. I made that correction upthread. ^^ Now the question I want answered is HowTF did that thing stay up there for over 40 years being attached by biodegradable climbing ropes? Do people periodically replace the ropes holding that thing to the wall? I see where it's become a de facto belay stance, so does someone keep "upgrading" the anchor ropes? Enquiring minds want to know, and all that rot... Quote
Coldfinger Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Well, that's one spectacular trundle that's been stolen from me. ur gonna need a longer cheater stick now Quote
orion_sonya Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Sobo, I am not sure when that picture was taken but there are other more recent pictures out there. I would have to think the ropes anchoring that thing get maintained. I wonder if someone re-hauled it back up there - that would be quite the effort. I am curious now, so I am digging... Orion Quote
sobo Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Orion, I'd be really interested in what you found out. I'd look for myself, but I've got to get on to other things right now. So if you find something, please post it here. I have this thread "Watched" in my list. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Hope its still there...with some gas in it. Quote
sobo Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Well, in the face of overwhelming interwebz-based evidence, I'm now convinced that it's still there. As far as the gas... Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I can stick clip and haul the gas up, no prob. Get it running, light it on fire, cut it loose, post viral video. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 particularly if your belayer's still standing on it... Quote
sobo Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 ...post viral video. That last bit made my day! Quote
Coldfinger Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I have to wonder what responsibility for the chopping lies with David Lama who wrote (ironically): "In the end, everything is easy. As I’m standing in the headwall on Cesare Maestri’s legendary compressor, I know that today nothing will stop us from reaching the summit of Cerro Torre." Linky No doubt the compressor was re-anchored, pics make that look like very modern static cord. Remember there's the weight of the compressor, the weight of rime and wind (nevermind folks standing on it). Keep in mind this is the SECOND time the route has been chopped. Colin's linky That blog makes it very clear the route was a defacto via ferrata for local guides sheepherding paying clients up the hill. I have to think Lama's overbolting (on top of Maestri's) was probably the tipping point as the chopping debate has gone on for years. Quote
John Frieh Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Sobo, I am not sure when that picture was taken but there are other more recent pictures out there. I would have to think the ropes anchoring that thing get maintained. I wonder if someone re-hauled it back up there - that would be quite the effort. I am curious now, so I am digging... Orion It's on a metal swage cable. You can kinda see it in this picture: http://media.community.gore-tex.com/_Maestri39s-compressor-is-still-bolted-to-Cerro-Torre39s-headwall-Its-the-only-stance-for-4-pitches/photo/7421304/98605.html Still there. Never chopped. Quote
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