Jetskiis (& snowmobiles) suck

[vegetablebelay]

quote:

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Originally posted by E-rock:

and I choose not to access those places where a snowmobile would be necessary. .

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Think of all the ice out there you will never see.

 

Bring on the freshiez!

 

[iain]

quote:

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Originally posted by MtnGoat:

So basically, your religion of the mtns supercedes their religion of the mtns, right?

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That's a big leap right there.

 

I find the problem with snowmobiles is their area of impact. They leave a big footprint in noise pollution and the fact they can cruise 20 miles in a day easily. I can be deep in the Three Sisters Wilderness in winter yet I can still hear that whining drone as they charge up the hill for the 1000th time at the wilderness boundary. And dealing with the herds to access the wilderness in the first place. They jam parking lots with huge horse trailers and rv's. I hate them for this as a means to a recreational end more than as a utility vehicle to get people into places to do stuff (which I think should be limited too). But I've put up with them over the years. Some are very nice helpful people but when they blow by you leaving the exhaust it's like someone spitting in your face while they give you a compliment.

[iain]

in short, I think people should only ride in on snow beasts from the emp. strkes bck. that would be acceptable.

[Dru]

I read somewhere (I think it was in Ed Abbey but it might have been Abbey Hoffmann) that if you take plastic triangular flagging like they always have at car dealers and bury it just under the surface of the snow, when a sled runs over it the treads suck the flagging up into the tread and it melts on the engine and wrecks the sled. Anybody know if this is true or not?

 

For jet skiis I prefer torpedoes or mines. I was up on the summit of the Lions once and I could hear the whine of the engine all the way from over where one was circling around Gambier. 8 miles away and 5000 feet lower down.

 

Now if only they came up for an electric engine for jet skis, quad ATVs and sleds 90% of the problem would be gone. Course no rednecks would buy a silent one, except the guys who like to poach winter elk and deer from them.

[ScottP]

This summer I was sitting on the beach at Baker Lake alternately looking at Blum and Shuksan and my son and daughter throwing rocks. Down a ways was a family of PEPs (Piston Engine People). They were zipping around on those PWC (Personal Water Craft) making noise and stinking up the air a bit. At first I thought it was pretty annoying, but then as I got to watching them some, I saw they were having fun and enjoying the scene like I was, only in a different way. It didn't seem so annoying when I took it in that context.

 

It's a different culture than mine, for sure, but no less valid of one. If you can't cut them some slack for being and thinking differently, then your intolerance just might send you to an earlier grave.

[Greg_W]

quote:

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Originally posted by iain:

in short, I think people should only ride in on snow beasts from the emp. strkes bck. that would be acceptable.

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But imagine the brown coils those things drop!!

[iain]

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg W:

quote:

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Originally posted by iain:

in short, I think people should only ride in on snow beasts from the emp. strkes bck. that would be acceptable.

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But imagine the brown coils those things drop!!

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true, true and I guess they're kinda loud too. screw it, just cut 'em up and use 'em as bivy sacks and handwarmers.

[Beck]

The sooner they all go to four cycle engines a lot of these problems you legitimate backcountry users have about them will go away.

The particular type of socioeconomic culture that gives rise to ORV's as recreation, never.

They get taken care of by natural selection (Avalanche deaths by snoriders now surpass skier deaths)not that that's a good thing-

or as follows, from my youth, a regular dialog over the evening newspaper.

(spoken with that lilting Scandinavian tone, ala "Fargo")

Dad: "Oh, that's too bad, now, isn't it?"

Mom: "Now what is?"

Dad: "Oh, here is another, a snowmachiner, he run his snowmachine into de trees there outside a Gwuinn, on his way home from da bar there. Oh."

Mom: "Now, that, sad, eh. So sad."

Dad: "Sure, now, here, the sherrif, he says he musta been going eighty,ninety..."

Mom: "Jeez."

Kids(in unison) "Cool!"

Probably happened half dozen times a season.

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

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Originally posted by vegetablebelay:

quote:

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Originally posted by E-rock:

and I choose not to access those places where a snowmobile would be necessary. .

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Think of all the ice out there you will never see.

 

Bring on the freshiez!

 

---

Phukin A dude

[fern]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

Course no rednecks would buy a silent one

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which is probably one reason why there doesn't seem to be any major shift to 4-Strokes.

 

a couple of years ago 99-North had an article about sledding across the Powdercap traverse, and the last paragraph had the (completely sincere) 'tip' that you should be sure to bring a cellphone and a large-limit credit card in case you run out of gas and need a helicopter to come get you

[North_by_Northwest]

Well yeah, its hard to walk in the snow when you're drunk, 50 pounds overweight and wearing a sopping wet full body Carhartt suit.

 

ORVs are a real pain sometimes, but I suppose they have their place too.

 

I for one would like to see horses and horsepackers banned from a lot of areas. I don't like walking in shit all day and then having to hear some Wilford Brimley type tell me to move off the trail so I don't spook his ill-tempered horse or mule

[iain]

I was out running on a trail once and went around a bend and came face-to-face with a horse. The horse freaked out, reared up and almost tossed the girl riding it. I felt awful.

[North_by_Northwest]

Have you read that excerpt, I think in one of Beckey's guides, about the mule that slipped off the trail and rolled down a talus slope, then got up and kept walking? Crazy. "Scandanavian milk tickets" everywhere I think it said

[E-rock]

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg W:

quote:

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Whew!! Your pucker's a little tight there bro.

Have a

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You're probably right

 

quote:

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Originally posted by ScottP:

This summer I was sitting on the beach at Baker Lake alternately looking at Blum and Shuksan and my son and daughter throwing rocks. Down a ways was a family of PEPs (Piston Engine People). They were zipping around on those PWC (Personal Water Craft) making noise and stinking up the air a bit. At first I thought it was pretty annoying, but then as I got to watching them some, I saw they were having fun and enjoying the scene like I was, only in a different way. It didn't seem so annoying when I took it in that context.

 

It's a different culture than mine, for sure, but no less valid of one. If you can't cut them some slack for being and thinking differently, then your intolerance just might send you to an earlier grave.

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I'm glad I posted afterall, because you've given me much to think about. I can be pretty fucking high-strung and self-righteous over my environmental beliefs. I don't want to die angry and in pain from too much life-long stress. But I will continue to lobby for non-motorized use, and perhaps, as I soften my approach, I may win over a few converts.

[Fairweather]

quote:

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Originally posted by E-rock:

RobBob, since you are polling us for an opinion and this is something I feel very strongly about (and Caveman bullied me into responding with childish insults

), I'm going to speak my mind.

 

I'll go much farther than to say that snowmobiles (and jetskis) should be banned from NP's, I think they should be restricted to a very finite number of specified locations where they are separated from all other forms of winter (and summer) recreation.

 

I believe that people who partake in the use of snowmobiles and jetskis have no sense of aethetics and no reverence for the natural environment. Over the years I have had my altercations with 'bilers in the backcountry. My opinion is that they are generally a bunch of drunken, ape-draped, homophobic, brutes who feel empowered by their gas-burning toys and feel a need to overcompensate for their masculine insecurities.

 

I think the practice of high-marking is destructive to the human spirit and our respect for the mountains. The high marking of high, steep slopes is done with such ease and speed that several sleds can track out an enormous mountainside in a matter of minutes. Because this act is so easy to commit, it makes the mountains feel smaller than they really are. It inflates the human reference frame to the point where we can view ourselves to be as significant as the mountains themselves, which on geologic and spatial scales is not true.

 

I remember once talking a group of 'bilers out of beating me and my friend to a pulp, because my bigmouthed friend was yelling off the ridge at them. They believed that they had more of a right to be in the mountains than us because they "payed taxes on their sleds". These are the sorts of people who ride snowmobiles. They are the same people who bitch and complain that the governent taxes them against their will, then contend that their taxes have bought them priviledges (rights even!).

 

The snowmobiler is a particularly odd sort of redneck, he (and I say HE because you see very few female high-markers/recreational sledders) comes from the city with his money, his gas burning toys, and his irreverence. He pollutes the land with noise and fumes, pisses off the locals, frightens the wildlife, and then goes home to his life of societal insecurities.

 

The reason I was reluctant to post this is that many people on this site may use snowmobiles themselves for approaches. My opinion is biased against this for two reasons: I cut my backcountry teeth in a place where access was easy and snowmobiles were unrequired, and I choose not to access those places where a snowmobile would be necessary. Perhaps I would feel less strongly about snowmobiles as access vehicles if the four stroke engine was readily marketed. I think the two-stroke engine is a disgusting, wasteful excuse for engineering.

 

Furthermore, I'm reluctant to say these things because:

1. I criticize backcountry snowmobilers for claiming their 'right' to recreate supercedes mine, while...

2. At the same time I contend to have 'more' of a right to visit the mountains in unmotorized peace.

I am unable to reconcile this paradox in my own mind and fall back on the philosophical aspects of my opinion as expressed above.

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E Rock

 

Sounds to me like you and your friend were the ones who were the instigators and got the confrontation you likely deserved with the 'bilers.

 

Your attitude is selfish, arrogant, and slightly effeminate. Do you live in Seattle, drive a Subaru, tele-ski, or have a government job by chance?

 

...just responding to your stereotypical aspersions.

 

[ 10-29-2002, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

[allthumbs]

E Rock,

 

You are so one sided on this issue that it's fruitless to even attempt to show you the error of your ways. You must make your mate quite miserable. Have a good day and please stay clear of my sled.

 

trask

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Schuldt:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

I am one with the snowmobile. Eliminate the approach

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PUSSY!!!!

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Yeah. So what. Say it to my face.

 

Now who's the pussy bitch

 

[ 10-29-2002, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Buy a snowmobile. Yay.

[iain]

quote:

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Originally posted by fern:

I already have the jacked pickup. anyone know where I can get a deal on a sled?

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if you're referring to some unimog again you've got it all wrong. A Ford F-350 with mudslingers or similar makes this picture. Stickers of famous Nascar numbers on the back and a mirror-polished rear differential are brownie points.

[RobBob]

As a sailboater, I find that jetski operators feel the need to pass within 50 ft of every sailboat. My theory is that the high incidence of toplessness draws them near.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Schuldt:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

I am one with the snowmobile. Eliminate the approach

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PUSSY!!!!

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Yeah. So what.

Say it to my face.

 

Now who's the pussy bitch

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Pussyfaggotsissywimp!

[iain]

but I hear a sled in Nelson B.C. goes a long way in winter....

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Schuldt:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

I am one with the snowmobile. Eliminate the approach

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PUSSY!!!!

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Yeah. So what.

Say it to my face.

 

Now who's the pussy bitch

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Pussyfaggotsissywimp!

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No shit. At least I know who he is and drink brews with the fucka.

[cj001f]

quote:

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Originally posted by iain:

quote:

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Originally posted by fern:

I already have the jacked pickup. anyone know where I can get a deal on a sled?

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if you're referring to some unimog again you've got it all wrong. A Ford F-350 with mudslingers or similar makes this picture.

Stickers of famous Nascar numbers on the back and a mirror-polished rear differential are brownie points.

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Don't forget Calvin pissing on the Chevy logo for double extra bonus points!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Every time I use a snowmobile I always am sure to dump fuel and oil out on the snow. Also I leave trash everywhere.