vegetablebelay Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 US Forest Svc Accounting Error Reduced Firefighting Funds WASHINGTON (AP)--The U.S. Forest Service, now battling one of the worst fire seasons in history, "misplaced" about $215 million intended for wildfire management because of an accounting error, a watchdog group contends. The agency says the money is being recovered. Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington-based advocacy group, made public on Friday an internal memo from Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth that said the error nearly two years ago had been discovered as the agency tried to improve its accounting practices. The Forest Service expects to spend a record $1.5 billion this year to fight wildfires that have consumed more than 6 million acres in the West and killed 20 firefighters. The agency is working with the White House Office of Management and Budget to find a way to apply the money, which was supposed to have been spent for the fiscal 2000 budget that ended Sept. 30, 2000, to this year's budget. Then it can be used to help pay for current firefighting efforts, Bosworth said. While the auditing error could make additional money available to fight fires this summer, Eric Lynch, a policy analyst for the taxpayer group, said "the misplaced millions could have been spent to reduce fire risk long before this year's fires ravaged the West." "How in the world does an agency lose hundreds of million of dollars so desperately needed to help extinguish fires in the West?" asked Lynch. "In a record-spending fire season, it is vital that the Forest Service be held accountable as to how it spends taxpayer money." In a memo to regional foresters and other supervisors this month, Bosworth said $215 million was mistakenly reduced from a wildfire management account during a year-end account reconciliation in late 2000. The error was recently discovered "as a result of our continuing intense efforts to address agency accountability issues," Bosworth wrote in the memo, released by the taxpayer advocacy group. Over the past decade, the Forest Service has failed eight out of 10 Inspector General audits - a record the taxpayers' group called among the worst in the federal bureaucracy. Bosworth, in his memo, said the windfall from the accounting error would do little to reverse the financial strain the agency is experiencing because of the severe fire season. In the absence of a dramatic increase from Congress, "It is apparent these additional funds will only mitigate the possibility of harsh actions that could affect the employment and morale of the work force," Bosworth wrote. The memo urged supervisors to significantly curtail all but the most essential spending and limit operations to those focused on protecting life and property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapertimmy Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 i heard the USFS has an accounting outfit full of WSU grads that perform their audits, scary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Cougar accountants -- OMFG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Misplaced???? Accounting Mishap? Why doesn't that even surprise me? Someone elses petty mistake in the office ends up a disasterous turn of events for the people on the ground....early lay offs I presume. What's new? Forest Circus....don't get me started. Granted fighting fire is good money and the life style is great, I appreciate that I can work in the woods but I am getting so disallusioned with it because of all the politics. I am even feeling (has been coming on for years) that fire suppression is wrong in a lot of cases and now I feel I am working for something I don't even believe in. It has made me so jaded to the point of throwing up my hands and walking away. They should be spending money on education of defensable space for home owners in the urban interface and acceptance that fire is beautiful and a good thing. LET IT BURN! If you decide to build your house in the woods, you assume the risk. Mr. Fire Insurance had a good invention... WE don't have to extinguish fires and put lives at risk for the sake of something as stupid as merchantable timber but rather corral it around and defend those communities that live in the woods. Mother nature can't be reckoned with....we are at her mercy and the hills will burn up whether we are there or not. We really don't have any real influence...can you say weather, fuels, topography? That is what controls fire, not helicopters dumping 50 gallons at $1,500 pop on a 400,000 acre fire! Fires die down when moisture develops, winds change, or the fuels become lighter but the FEDS like to take all the credit. I suppose political bullshit happens in every line of work but man, the FS takes the cake. It would make your head spin if I were to tell you some of the shit they spend, or shall I say waste, money on. O.K I will get off my soapbox now. I hope this is my last year doin this shit though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILuvAliens Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 quote: The U.S. Forest Service, now battling one of the worst fire seasons in history, "misplaced" about $215 million intended for wildfire management because of an accounting error, a watchdog group contends. Maybe the IRS can help them find the error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnrgr Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 I got a great Fire=waste money story. When I was back home in Salt Lake, a fire somehow started at 9000 ft. on Broads Fork Twins. I never heard the offical answer how it started, there was no clouds in the sky, and it was about 6 miles into a trailess area. The small fire (apporx. 40 acres) was surround by talus in a hanging valley, but the FS or state, I don't know who, decided they needed to put it out with helicopters. I guess because it was in full veiw of the entire city. The best part was on the news they interveiwed a homeowner who was afraid he lose is house. He lived 6-10 miles away and 4000 ft. lower than the fire! I love dumb asses. I Government love to spend money on useless shit. It's what it does best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_the_Tool Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 Suckaz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek_the_Greek Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 Well, shit, yeah they fucked up, obviously more than once. But you have to give them a break. They have the most contradictory mandate(s) of any US government agency. By law, they are responsible for sustained yield of timber from public lands (never repealed) from 1897's Organic Act; maximum production of recreational values, wildlife habitat and numbers, water quality, and timber yield from the Multiple Use Sustained Yield act of 1961 (also never repealed; how the hell do you maximize 4 non-translatable variables?); a legal mandate to take into account public opinion in forest planning from the 1974 Forest Management Act (still holds); and further responsibilities in the PNW that generally overshadow all previous obligations from the 1994 NW Forest Plan. Essentially, they can't fart without getting sued for violating some law. All this takes place in an environment where public trust in the agency is pretty much gone (understandably, perhaps), and the reality that fighting forest fires for all those years has led to the current fuels crisis in dry forest types. Agency morale is one of the lowest in the government agencies. Since the timber sale program has gotten dramatically smaller, their main source of revenue is gone (potentially replaced by various equally unpopular fee demo projects). And while it's clear that fighting forest fires is still useless or counterproductive in many areas, the FS can actually still get sued by landowners for not putting out fires that start or cross national forest land (and subsequently go on to burn private property). Plus, in a lot of dry forests, just letting fires burn in their current fuel-heavy state is not an option that will lead to what most people consider a healthy forest (because they will burn up completely, whereas historically they only had low-severity underburns; see my post in Bushwacked, p.3 for more details (near the bottom)). So in sum, they can get sued for not cutting trees, for cutting trees, for not maximizing recreation, wildlife, or water, for fighting fires and for not fighting fires. So the USFS is pretty messed up right now, but I don't think they could do otherwise. They need a new mission and vision (and I don't reckon they're going to get it from Mr. Bosworth). But I wouldn't bash the FS employees too much, because they can't do right now no matter what (I believe the term is 'analysis paralysis'). ...not that misplacing 200+ million dollars is particularly forgivable. I doubt this quote: Eric Lynch, a policy analyst for the taxpayer group, said "the misplaced millions could have been spent to reduce fire risk long before this year's fires ravaged the West." would have made much difference, though (maybe a wee little bit). Most analysts estimate that it will take over 40 years to get the national forests back to a relatively safe/healthy state, fuel-wise, and it currently takes years to approve most fuel-reduction projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Geek the Greek: And while it's clear that fighting forest fires is still useless or counterproductive in many areas, the FS can actually still get sued by landowners for not putting out fires that start or cross national forest land (and subsequently go on to burn private property). Plus, in a lot of dry forests, just letting fires burn in their current fuel-heavy state is not an option that will lead to what most people consider a healthy forest (because they will burn up completely, whereas historically they only had low-severity underburns I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. Sometimes I am quick to judge those making the final decisions. I do feel sorry for the poor bastards cuz they do get sued for practically anything these days. I think that the public (uneducated public) has somewhat of a stranglehold on what the FS does and doesn't do and I truly believe that that might be where shit is fucked up. They cater to what the public wants (very conflicting at times), whether it be right or not. After all it is our tax dollars that pay them to make those decisions (so they all say) but none of us can agree. We can't please everyone, someone will lose while another will benefit...maybe there are too many of us humans running around...... We all want what's best to keep the forests healthy and still be able to utilize it. Playing God with this planet is a tough job...maybe we do need another vision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 The Republicans say the government should be run like a bussiness. Seems like the Forest Circus is just like Enron and WorldCom ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dave Schuldt: The Republicans say the government should be run like a bussiness. Seems like the Forest Circus is just like Enron and WorldCom ect. DAVE, LIKE GORE IS ANNNNNNYYYYYYY DIFFERENT....HE IS JUST A WHORE TO DIFFERENT CORPERATIONS......AND PLUS AT LEAST THE CONSERVATIVE POINT OF VIEW ALLOWS US TO SPEND OUR OWN MONEY....I HAVE MY OWN BILLS AND THEREFORE FEEL THE NEDD TO SPEND MY MONEY ON THE THINGS THAT I FIND IMPORTANT.....DEMOS CREATE BIG GOVT TO MAKE SURE THE WORLD IS HAPPPY AND FUN FOR ALL....WELL SHIT MAN, THERE ARE TIMES IN MY LIFE WHEN THINGS ARE HARD AND SOMETIMES STRESSFUL, BUT INSTERAD OF CRYING AND BLAMING OTHERS I TAKE MY LIFE INTO MY OWN HANDS AND MAKE I BETTER FOR MYSELF......AND THIS IS WHERE THE DEMOS GO WRONG, THEY ATTEMPT TO TAKE INDIVIDUALISM OUT OF SOCIETY(HAVING FACIAL PIERCES AND WEIRD CLOTHES IS NOT INDIVIDUALISM) AND EXPECT EVERYONE TO GET THE EQUAL SHARE...WELL MY MAN WITH MY 40HR WORLK WEEK I DONT WANT TO SHARE WHAT I HAVE EARNED...SPECIALLY FOR SOMEONE UNWILLING TO HELP THEMSELVES......... SO DEMOS ARE NOT BETTER THEN REPUBS AND VICE VERSA...I WORK, I HAVE FUN WITH MY FRIENDS AND I GO CLIMBING....LET ALL THOSE PEOPLE PLAY THEIR GAME AND WHEN SOMETHING CUTTING EDGE OR NEW FANGLED COMES ABOUT GIVE ME A SHOUT OUT....CAUSE FROM ONE SIDE TO THE NEXT THEY ARE ALL RICH CRY BABIES!!! WHO LOOK OUT FOR THEMSELVES FIRST AND THEN THEIR CORP. FREINDS NEXT AND IF THEN THEIR CONSTITUANTS NEEDS SOMETHING AND THEY GHAVE TIME....WELL THEN MAYBE WE CAN GER SOMETHING... I WILL BE BUSY TAKING CARE OF MYSELF PEACE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 erik where did Snoop go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: erik where did Snoop go? he is on vacation right now in Jamacia..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by erik: SO DEMOS ARE NOT BETTER THEN REPUBS AND VICE VERSA... KILL the two-party system! Money talks and bullshit will soon destroy us. I'm ready to head for the hills to be self-sufficient and live with the animals...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Anna: I'm ready to head for the hills to be self-sufficient and live with the animals......Seeee Ya!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted August 26, 2002 Author Share Posted August 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Anna: I'm ready to head for the hills to be self-sufficient and live with the animals......[/QB] Don't forget your trail park pass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Hey Dru, can I come up to Canada?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 I think Danimal has to pay park pass dealies when he goes to Canyucker land. YOu guys got your own bs of 26 $ piss beer going on so I am not so sure you have the best shit going on there either. ALthough the mountains sure are nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 At the moment permits are only required for Canadian National Parks like Banff and Fort Langley Altho' that could change with current BC gov't trying to copy American ways of stealing money from taxpayer for public services Grizzly bears have been seen to cross borders in N cascades without going thru border crossings, I suppose same method is also Ok for Snafflehounds and other alpine primates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 I can't buy land up there, eh? I suppose since I am not a resident. Thinking of finishing my flight training in Canada though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Anna: I can't buy land up there, eh? I suppose since I am not a resident. Thinking of finishing my flight training in Canada though.... That hasn't stopped the non-resident Germans and Americans buying up land in the Gulf Islands and interior and suchlike... i dont think Canada has a law against foreign ownership... finish your flight training in chilliwack, the airport has 5 star pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 dru, I am beginning to think you have an uncontrolable sweet tooth all beta leads to yummy food Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted August 26, 2002 Author Share Posted August 26, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sk: dru, I am beginning to think you have an uncontrolable sweet tooth all beta leads to yummy food Munchies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 oh ya, I should have known At least I know what to get him for his birthday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 i was just eating airport pie an hour ago fresh local blackberry-peach slice $3.50 yummy. If the food is not good eating what's the point? Notice I did not contribute anything to the Ramen thread. NB In Canada it is usually called Ichiban and not Ramen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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