Seach and rescue questions

[chris54]

I was reading about the recent kayakers out at bridal vail falls and was wondering if they would be charged for the rescue. This is not political, I'm not choosing sides. I'm wondering at what point do you get charged for a rescue? If you have all the right gear and a freak accident happens, do you get charged? Who makes the call on whether you get a bill? I'm Just simply wondering how the system works and not trying to push any bodies buttons.

 

Thanks Chris

Edited June 28, 2011 by chris54

[Rad]

This is a highly charged issue, pun intended. You might find some relevant facts in the article I wrote last year for the NWMJ here:

 

NWMJ article on Climber 9-1-1

 

[chris54]

Thanks rad

 

Great info. Thanks for taking the time to write that up.

[ScaredSilly]

It is typically the sheriff (or if in a National Park the incident commander??) who will make the decision on whether a person is cited, which will then as part of conviction will require restitution of the rescue costs. I do believe there are few counties that can charge directly for a rescue.

 

It is rarely done even went it should be

[Couloir]

It only seems to be a charged issue on the comment sections of the various media outlets where the story is told. It's funny, those same commenters never insist on charging "those fools!" when it comes to the coast guard rescuing fishermen out in the Pacific or the hunters who happen to get lost.

[billcoe]

That's a Rad story Rad, thanks for putting out there so well. For myself, I think the more we can keep the government out of the mission and leave it to SAR volunteers, the better will be all of our lives and we will have less government restrictions to deal with and thus more freedom.

[rob]

That's a Rad story Rad, thanks for putting out there so well. For myself, I think the more we can keep the government out of the mission and leave it to SAR volunteers, the better will be all of our lives and we will have less government restrictions to deal with and thus more freedom.

 

Well, I was a SAR and Mountain Rescue volunteer for a few years, and we all thought the government assistance from the Sheriff's Office was pretty cool. We got a neat little headquarters and helicopters and hovercrafts and shit. I'm not sure how that resulted in less freedom for anybody, or government restrictions either. Back then, it just seemed like it resulted in way better operations and more saved lives, with less risk to rescuers. But, I don't know a lot about these things. Maybe you're right, maybe we were oppressing people with government restrictions and I just wasn't involved in those missions.

[Rad]

Bill,

As Rob notes, SAR may have substantial support from volunteers, but operations are run by "Govt" (local Sheriff, Park Service, etc). Sending out a volunteer-only force would be problematic for a lot of reasons. If you want to know why try calling Kelly Bush or one of your Sheriffs who runs the ops on Hood. I found them very accessible and bet they'd be glad to talk with you.

Rad

[montypiton]

As noted above,if a SAR mission begins with a 911 call, it will ALWAYS be a "government" operation. In my experience (thirty years Chelan County Mountain Rescue Association) this can mean anything from a crew of public employees to only one deputy who is "Incident Commander" commanding a crew of volunteers who have the expertise to execute the rescue. It has also been my experience that in our locality, the more technical the rescue, the more likely it is that we'll have one deputy who hands us a radio and says "do it, and let me know how it goes". As for charging rescuees, Washington state law mandates that the sheriff of the county in which the event occurs shall provide search and rescue services at no charge. The loudmouths who demand that adventurers be charged for this service are demonstrably ignorant of the laws of the state in which they live. You might get a fine, if you've done something you can be cited for, but you can't legally get a bill - although once the sheriff's SAR crew hands you off to the ambulance crew, ka-ching!

[chris54]

Thanks montypiton

 

I work on an ambulance and ka ching! Is right. My advice take a taxi.

[genepires]

I work on an ambulance and ka ching! Is right. My advice take a taxi.

 

It has been my experience that if you ride a fire dept ambulance, you get a free ride. Am I wrong about that? Does the fire dept have the ability to charge for ambulance rides?

 

If I am right, maybe you can have the sheriff call the fire dept ambulance people.

 

How does that work anyway between fire dept EMT vs private EMT? first one to the crash scene wins?

[chris54]

It's public and private ambulance.

 

It's mostly the county that decides. When they realize they can't manage their money as well as a private company they put the 911 transport up for bid. Example would be Washington county. Metro west holds that contract. So if you call 911 the county dispatcher sends fire and a private ambulance to the scene. The fire department typically gets there first and starts working on the patient then turns it over to metro west when it's time to transport. Metro west then pays the fire department back for any medical stuff used. Metro then will take care of all the billing. Ka ching!

 

Some counties still have fire transport and there all set up different. Some require an annual fee to live in a certain area which would cover all your 911 needs. All the states have a different way of funding the fire department. Oregons is funded off of property taxes.

Edited July 5, 2011 by chris54

[DRep]

It's public and private ambulance.

 

It's mostly the county that decides. When they realize they can't manage their money as well as a private company they put the 911 transport up for bid. Example would be Washington county. Metro west holds that contract. So if you call 911 the county dispatcher sends fire and a private ambulance to the scene. The fire department typically gets there first and starts working on the patient then turns it over to metro west when it's time to transport. Metro west then pays the fire department back for any medical stuff used. Metro then will take care of all the billing. Ka ching!

 

Some counties still have fire transport and there all set up different. Some require an annual fee to live in a certain area which would cover all your 911 needs. All the states have a different way of funding the fire department. Oregons is funded off of property taxes.

 

Every county and department handles EMS transport fees differently up in Washington.

[sobo]

This is a highly charged issue, pun intended. You might find some relevant facts in the article I wrote last year for the NWMJ here:

 

NWMJ article on Climber 9-1-1

Rad,

Fantastic, well-researched and written article. My hat's off to you for that.

Also just wanted to mention that a few of your links in the sidebars are broken that you might want to fix:

 

Page 2: Link to ANAM 2007,

Page 2: Link to MRA, and

Page 3: Link to Athearn article.

 

And I got so swept up in your article that I clicked on the sidebar link to that exhilarating article recounting Jason Schilling's four nights on the North Buttress of Mt. Terror. Fine piece that was. Glad Steve pulled through, and major props to all involved in that rescue of both Steve and Jason!