KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 That would mean you'll be debunking the republican's manufactured debt crisis and forecasts of disaster? And Rob will be saying there is no problem? Status quo is just fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Is it bizarre how Jay's "findings" never result in anything other than the status quo? Amazing stuff! +1. Everything is just fine the way it is! Conservatism at its finest. Sorry for spoiling this conversation by introducing data! Look at us! Down in the mud with...Sweden! Germany - uhhhh..Nevermind! Japan - Ditto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Is it bizarre how Jay's "findings" never result in anything other than the status quo? Amazing stuff! +1. Everything is just fine the way it is! Conservatism at its finest. Sorry for spoiling this conversation by introducing data! Look at us! Down in the mud with...Sweden! Germany - uhhhh..Nevermind! Japan - Ditto! It's all about emotion. And then insulting the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Is it bizarre how Jay's "findings" never result in anything other than the status quo? Amazing stuff! +1. Everything is just fine the way it is! Conservatism at its finest. Sorry for spoiling this conversation by introducing data! Look at us! Down in the mud with...Sweden! Germany - uhhhh..Nevermind! Japan - Ditto! It's all about emotion. And then insulting the other side. Look, buddy. Greece has a higher percentage of college graduates than Germany - QED. Mexico has the same percentage of college graduates as Austria. Q.E. F'ing D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Questioning 1) if borrowing money for a particular college degree cuts it on a cost/benefit ratio, and 2)potentially considering a trade skill as an alternative- ...is akin to being regressive?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Questioning 1) if borrowing money for a particar college degree cuts it on a cost/benefit ratio, and 2)potentially considering a trade skill as an alternative- ...is akin to being regressive?? and in what utopia is there no need for people building houses, maintaining infrastructure, repairing plumbing, electricians, cleaning teeth, etc. and if an 18 year old has no idea what to do with himself, best to shuttle him off to college rather than work 2-3 years and have time to think about the former question before pursuing it- if you think otherwise you're a service tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) It's all about emotion. And then insulting the other side. Judging from the chart above, it looks like it's still about dodging questions about equality of access and what that's likely to look like as costs continue to outstrip the ability for many people to pay. Edited June 25, 2011 by prole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 It's all about emotion. And then insulting the other side. Judging from the chart above, it looks like it's still about dodging questions about equality of access. Nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 THAT'S ENOUGH FOR ME!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Sorry for spoiling this conversation by introducing data! Look at us! Down in the mud with...Sweden! Germany - uhhhh..Nevermind! Japan - Ditto! just dumping data as you usually do is meaningless. Your new plot like the previous ones isn't addressing the increasing disparity in access to higher education between low and high income families that was discussed. The advantage in educated population we had relative to other nations is not only long gone, but is likely bound to get worse now that the middle class is broke, can't borrow anymore (which as you know helped many over the last few decades to get a college education) and now that your types refuse to fund public education appropriately. I am not very familiar with trade schools but I suspect that a greater fraction of the pop in Europe goes to trade schools than in the US and I don't think trade schools are post high school edu in Europe. As I already said, trade schools can be a reasonable option if they lead to stable and living wage work, which is increasingly doubtful in the little paradise you guys created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Sorry for spoiling this conversation by introducing data! Look at us! Down in the mud with...Sweden! Germany - uhhhh..Nevermind! Japan - Ditto! just dumping data as you usually do is meaningless. Your new plot like the previous ones isn't addressing the increasing disparity in access to higher education between low and high income families that was discussed. The advantage in educated population we had relative to other nations is not only long gone, but is likely bound to get worse now that the middle class is broke, can't borrow anymore (which as you know helped many over the last few decades to get a college education) and now that your types refuse to fund public education appropriately. I am not very familiar with trade schools but I suspect that a greater fraction of the pop in Europe goes to trade schools than in the US and I don't think trade schools are post high school edu in Europe. As I already said, trade schools can be a reasonable option if they lead to stable and living wage work, which is increasingly doubtful in the little paradise you guys created. 1) Access to higher education in the US is comparable to other industrialized nations 2) Nowhere *near* 100% of folks in any country attends postsecondary education by the age of 34 You're not only not so great in your analytical skills, but as a supposed "scientist" you sure seem incapable of understanding the simplest bar-chart. Oh, yeah, you can always blame your lack of attention on the fact that your hair is on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Sorry for spoiling this conversation by introducing data! Look at us! Down in the mud with...Sweden! Germany - uhhhh..Nevermind! Japan - Ditto! just dumping data as you usually do is meaningless. Your new plot like the previous ones isn't addressing the increasing disparity in access to higher education between low and high income families that was discussed. The advantage in educated population we had relative to other nations is not only long gone, but is likely bound to get worse now that the middle class is broke, can't borrow anymore (which as you know helped many over the last few decades to get a college education) and now that your types refuse to fund public education appropriately. I am not very familiar with trade schools but I suspect that a greater fraction of the pop in Europe goes to trade schools than in the US and I don't think trade schools are post high school edu in Europe. As I already said, trade schools can be a reasonable option if they lead to stable and living wage work, which is increasingly doubtful in the little paradise you guys created. Now, I'll admit I've been dealing with log-log data and pivot tables all day, so maybe I'm missing something in my ability to decipher a simple bar chart. But HTF did you get 1) income disparity/lack of access, 2)middle class well-being trend data, 3)inaccessabiliy to credit, 4)borrowing trends of students over the last decade as correlated to graduation, 5)proportion of trade school admissions in Europe vs. US, and 6)the trend of trade school graduates vs. inflation-based living wage. I mean, that is just brillant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Now, I'll admit I've been dealing with log-log data and pivot tables all day, so maybe I'm missing something in my ability to decipher a simple bar chart. But HTF did you get 1) income disparity/lack of access? You don't, and that's the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 1) Access to higher education in the US is comparable to other industrialized nations 2) Nowhere *near* 100% of folks in any country attends postsecondary education by the age of 34 You're not only not so great in your analytical skills, but as a supposed "scientist" you sure seem incapable of understanding the simplest bar-chart. Oh, yeah, you can always blame your lack of attention on the fact that your hair is on fire. I know you are dense but please pay attention: how would the US compare if the middle class hadn't gone into debt to pay for education over the last 30 years? how will the US compare now that edu costs have gone through the roof, the middle class is disappearing before our very eyes, and you keep spending all the money on wars and tax cuts for the uber rich and corporations (sucker)? and when you consider that in many countries education costs are much lower? (if you need a clue compare health care, and see how many people go without health care in the US versus other industrialized nations) If the above applies to the middle class, what does it mean for low income families? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Now, I'll admit I've been dealing with log-log data and pivot tables all day, so maybe I'm missing something in my ability to decipher a simple bar chart. But HTF did you get 1) income disparity/lack of access? You don't, and that's the point. No shit. JayB illustrates a specific point A with a graph. Resident hand waver brings up Points C, D, M, Q, and R - w/o any reference to anything. Other than proving another hair fire it's vacant. Cheers - going home to pack up the skis for the weekend BC trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) Now, I'll admit I've been dealing with log-log data and pivot tables all day, so maybe I'm missing something in my ability to decipher a simple bar chart. But HTF did you get 1) income disparity/lack of access, something is clearly affecting your reading ability, but it isn't just today. 2)middle class well-being trend data, 3)inaccessabiliy to credit, 4)borrowing trends of students over the last decade as correlated to graduation, you mean that you don't see how the well being of the middle class and the ability to secure funds to pay for school is related to the number of people who get college education? hmmm, I am not sure how I can help and whether it is worth my while to try. 5)proportion of trade school admissions in Europe vs. US, and 6)the trend of trade school graduates vs. inflation-based living wage. trades school in the US are pretty much exclusively post-high school education whereas many aren't in Europe. So being aware of it helps compare the data with a little more understanding. Or at least, it ought to be clarified. I mean, that is just brillant. well, thank you. But, is that all the comments you had? or do you consider your post a demonstration of anything beside your shortcomings? Edited June 25, 2011 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) You don't, and that's the point. No shit. JayB illustrates a specific point A with a graph. Bullshit. JayB dropped a graph that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand and made a snarky remark without attempting to tell us what it meant in context. Your failure to understand the argument isn't my problem. I love how prole essentially made exactly the same points I did in a couple posts above (except for trade schools), yet jim doesn't have any problem with it. Too funny. The dude seems to be developing a phobia. Edited June 25, 2011 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Now, I'll admit I've been dealing with log-log data and pivot tables all day, so maybe I'm missing something in my ability to decipher a simple bar chart. But HTF did you get 1) income disparity/lack of access? You don't, and that's the point. No shit. JayB illustrates a specific point A with a graph. Resident hand waver brings up Points C, D, M, Q, and R - w/o any reference to anything. Other than proving another hair fire it's vacant. Cheers - going home to pack up the skis for the weekend BC trip. Amen. I'm packing as well. Too bad j-bot and prole don't climb or ski - it might do them some good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Jay's graph illustrates a point, it just doesn't include any data that's relevant to a discussion about inequalities in access to education (the discussion at hand). Where is the difficulty here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Wait, what are you guys arguing about again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I just started reading this thread. Greeks and gifts? [img:center]http://www.falconfinl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/trojanhorse.jpg[/img] So they gave a gift to the Trojans expecting something in return? Since their gift sucked the Trojans gave them shitty condoms and now they're on the hook financially for a bunch of annoying brats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Is it bizarre how Jay's "findings" never result in anything other than the status quo? Amazing stuff! +1. Everything is just fine the way it is! Conservatism at its finest. Yeah, that's what everyone is saying. Great "analytical skills". Here's a clue - when people (or internet bots) are constantly harping on how their hair is on fire and the crisis is at hand signifies imminent disaster, the response will typically be to debunk that bullshit. Um, that IS what you and Jay are saying, and the charts you keep posting -- you are saying that there is no problem, and that things are fine the way they are. Am I wrong? Then tell us, what problems do you see regarding public postsecondary education and its access in the U.S. -- because it sounds like you and Jay keep defending that the current system is just fine. After all, we're "no worse than any other industrialized nation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Look at us! Down in the mud with...Sweden! Germany - uhhhh..Nevermind! Japan - Ditto! I.E. -- the status quo is just fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 When you go come over the rise and get the first look at the average Australian town you often see a beautiful school building with sport fields, satellite dishes and well kept grounds. You think, "they're really doing education up right here." Only that's the town's sport club which is the HQ for all the town's sports, gambling, politics, and liquor distribution. You don't get elected or get a liquor license in town if you're not part of the sports club. The high school? Oh, that's a crumbling shamble over in the other part of town. And they're a solid point ahead of us? And that's ok? Good luck with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Why College Pays Off A nicely written retort to the 'I wanna keep a few more tax dollars so let's pretend more education is actually a bad thing' crowd. Counterintuition: so hawt right now. Next up... ...Has more freedom really helped women and black people???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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