McD's Contribution to a Heathier You

[prole]

We so freedom!

[ivan]

Apparently, the only rights we have left worth defending are those that allow us to binge on drugs, food, and celebrity to relieve the pain of living in the shithole we've created. HOOAH!

duh! dude, when in human history was that (minus the celebrity, not sure where that comes from) NOT the best solution? do you derive more pleasure w/ your feverish internet battle to Right The Ship?

[prole]

Apparently, the only rights we have left worth defending are those allowing us to binge on drugs, food, and celebrity to relieve the pain of living in the shithole we've created. HOOAH!

 

Oh wait, we still don't have the (illegal) drugs part. Jay_B to the rescue!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Apparently, the only rights we have left worth defending are those allowing us to binge on drugs, food, and celebrity to relieve the pain of living in the shithole we've created. HOOAH!

 

Don't just tell Americans what to eat - tell them what is worth fighting for (and really important). Enlighten the sheeple, Prole! You go girl!

[prole]

duh! dude, when in human history...blah, blah...

 

Thanks, I've already got a broken record at home. History is a foundation, a stepping stone, not an excuse for your aging hippy nihilist schtick. Did your parents always keep your carseat facing backwards? Just curious.

[prole]

Don't just tell Americans what to eat - tell them what is worth fighting for (and really important).

 

You already nailed it, Scro! Don't you remember? Our Most Cherished Freedoms?

 

Again, back to McD's. What about Taco Bell, Burger King, Jack in the Box, Denny's, Red Robin, Shari's, Old Country Buffet, Carl's Jr., Round Table, Dominos, Papa Murphy's...

 

Fuck, do the math - all those franchises with all those restaurants. Americans love fast food, and they want it to be omni-present, 24/7, at convenience. We have made a choice, and it has nothing to do with greed, $$, or big-government neglect.

 

"We've made a choice" LMFAO!

[ivan]

duh! dude, when in human history...blah, blah...

 

Thanks, I've already got a broken record at home. History is a foundation, a stepping stone, not an excuse for your aging hippy nihilist schtick. Did your parents always keep your carseat facing backwards? Just curious.

hmm - um, i'm pretty damn young still at 36 and my parents never used carseats as i recall (got a real fond memory of my dad grabbing me and holding me in place while taking a 40 mph turn through an intersection and the station wagon door flew open w/ me on the verge of catapulting out ) - i remember disappearing, young as 7, on a bike in the morning and not coming home till dinner, which does seem to be a habit that's died out among the yuppie set

 

spend most of my employed day grappling w/ history, its lessons and its value, so i'm hardly ignorant on the subject, though no doubt don't stand up to snuff by your standards - feel free to accuse me of the resort to authority fallacy too, btw, as the ad hominem thing could use a break for a moment - seems to me history makes the limits of the possible pretty clear - there are actually pretty obvious limits to how much you can change societies, cultural attributes, the arc of events, institutions, etc. no doubt the crusade of better eatign will be a glorious success, if only dipshits like me could See the Light!

 

mostly i don't like to set standards higher for others than for myself - i eat reasonably responsibly and am in tolerable health, and would be annoyed if, on the rare occasions i feel liek buying a mickey-d's value meal, it cost twice as much as it does now - i also don't like being preached too, on really any fucking subject you might could think of - radical shit, eh?

[ivan]

i'd probably take the whole argument more seriously too if everyone involved reported, each day they participate, what they ate that day

 

off the top of me head, here's what i recall today:

breakfast:

- 2 cups of coffee

- big jalapeno bagel w/ plenty of butter

 

lunch:

- diet generic ass soda

- battery chicken, cabbage, cilantro, mexican cream, cheese n' tortilla

- apple

 

pre-gym snack:

- orange

- banana

- big old lungful of sunshine

 

dinner:

- many glasses of burgundy

- steamed dumplings filled w/ tofu n' shrimp n' bok-choy n' ginger w/ the wife's special sauce of soy, fish-sauce n' pepper-oil

- pretzels for desert

 

anyone care to explain how my "acculturation" explains this typical day and where it belongs In the Grand Scheme of Things?

[JayB]

Clearly, there must be some option between "draconian, nazi-ish control" of people's personal diets, and complete and utter libertarian abandonment. Obesity is a problem that affects all of us, and I don't think saying, "oh well, it's all their fault" is an really effective solution.

 

I don't think anybody is arguing that it's not their fault, by the way. Just that something needs to be done. Don't you think?

 

What do you suggest, Jay?

 

1) Easy and realistic: Allow health insurance companies to charge more for health risks that people have the capacity to control.

 

2) Out there and utopian: reform the way we pay for healthcare so that whatever path I chose to take to the grave - smack, crack, six-pack, or heart-attack isn't something that the government has to pick up the tab for, and consequently has no business in or basis for supervising as long as I'm not directly harming anyone else while I'm doing whatever it is that's deemed unhealthy anyone else.

 

 

[JayB]

 

And, back on topic, McDonald's is basically the same as the big tobacco companies, in my opinion. They're selling a product that is only bad in excess, and they see people doing it in excess, and they don't seem to care. Why? $$$$$$$$$$

 

Again, back to McD's. What about Taco Bell, Burger King, Jack in the Box, Denny's, Red Robin, Shari's, Old Country Buffet, Carl's Jr., Round Table, Dominos, Papa Murphy's...

 

Fuck, do the math - all those franchises with all those restaurants. Americans love fast food, and they want it to be omni-present, 24/7, at convenience. We have made a choice, and it has nothing to do with greed, $$, or big-government neglect.

 

Funny thing is I remember being called alarmist, hysterical, etc when I said that the some of the same state interventions deployed against smoking would be turned against fast/snack food 10 years ago.

 

And Here we are.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Don't just tell Americans what to eat - tell them what is worth fighting for (and really important).

 

You already nailed it, Scro! Don't you remember? Our Most Cherished Freedoms?

 

Again, back to McD's. What about Taco Bell, Burger King, Jack in the Box, Denny's, Red Robin, Shari's, Old Country Buffet, Carl's Jr., Round Table, Dominos, Papa Murphy's...

 

Fuck, do the math - all those franchises with all those restaurants. Americans love fast food, and they want it to be omni-present, 24/7, at convenience. We have made a choice, and it has nothing to do with greed, $$, or big-government neglect.

 

"We've made a choice" LMFAO!

 

Exactly. People make choices and it's irrelevant if a Besserwisser like you doesn't like their choices. They don't care a whit for your opinions or social engineering projects. LYFAO all you want, assclown.

[Crux]

When I studied Human Nutrition, I was impressed by how subtle dietary alterations can cause morbid obesity. Because the alterations are subtle, and because their initial presentations are inconclusive for diagnosis, they generally go unregarded for what they are. At the same time, the causal stimuli, even when identified, are generally considered innocuous at worst. Thus, as the malnutrition presents, at first it goes unnoticed: 100 kcal on a given day is not measured nor regarded as a manifestation of a dangerous and costly pathology. After all, that's just a slice of bread, or a can of pop, or a couple bites from a McBurger, or whatever. But over ten years, that extra 100 kcal per day, for the pathologically afflicted who take it consistently, translates to 100 pounds of body fat. And then 200 pounds of fat over twenty years, and then we notice: Another 45-year-old, 400-pound patient who requires a crane attended by two full-time staffers just to get into and out of her hospital bed at the Harborview.

 

I think we need to go to the start of the problem, and solve it there. There's a lot of casualties. And it's costing us a lot more than a big, fat, butt-load of money.

[AlpineK]

Kind of a long video, but it addresses health and obesity issues.

 

President Nixon, the sugar industry, and FDA don't look too good.

[video:youtube]

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Ivan and Crux have it right.

 

The assertion that 'food abuse' is at play is, of course, patently ridiculous. Suddenly, America has become a nation of 'abusers'? Classic prohibition rhetoric. The idea that 'something needs to be done' is also questionable. Really? Why?

 

The idea that food labeling is unnecessary while preaching personal responsibility is similarly ridiculous. "Manage your calories and nutrients properly, citizen, but food producers shouldn't have to disclose either." Now THAT's empowerment. "Oh, but labeling hasn't worked!" Yes it has...just not for those who don't read them. No policy works for 100% of the population. Thank you Ronald Reagan for the bullshit concept of zero tolerance! Your idiotic supplicants are still preaching it.

 

The worst idea presented yet is to give insurance companies, which have served the public so poorly to date, more power to deny coverage and fleece the public by giving them more control over our personal life choices. Smoking is a relatively unidimensional issue: No amount of smoking is good for you, and the studies on its health effects have produced starkly apparent results. Hence, it's probably appropriate that insurance companies charge smokers more.

 

Interesting, this same poster managed to slip a little bullshit propaganda about how a single payer system would do exactly what he's proposing private insurers should be able to do. A single payer system would maximize the amortization of everyone's health care costs, remove 18% extra we pay for administrative overhead, and maximize buying power (all basic free market principles - funny how often I have to teach Rfucks about their own religion) resulting in the lowest price for everyone and therefore eliminating the need for any institution, private or public, to micro manage any individuals daily lifestyle choices.

 

Obesity is another matter. First, there are really no 'bad foods'. Is lard bad? Not really, unless you eat a full tub of it regularly...which you probably could do if you were an avid marathoner.

 

And take congestive heart failure. There are five major risk factors (the largest two being smoking and genetics, not obesity, BTW) that determine propensity for CHF. To minimize premiums for everyone, insurance companies should deal with teh two most important factors, right? First a) ask about smoking (they do), and b) analyze your DNA and charge accordingly. No privacy issues there, eh? Fair is fair.

 

Oh, but people have no control over their DNA, sooo....

 

'Charging for obesity', in practice, would be a highly invasive clusterfuck. "you told us you weighed 190, but your required 6 month weigh in last year (which you must do and pay for to keep coverage) put you at 200...sorry...we're not paying for your heart attack." Awesome idea. Certainly, insurance companies wouldn't use that to screw consumers to maximize profits. Couldn't possibly happen.

 

All these ideas, whether from the far left or far right, are punitive in nature, and reveal more about their proponents that they inform the debate.

 

The obesity epidemic has been slow in onset, like obesity itself. Eating an extra 3500 cal will gain you a pound of fat. Eat 200 extra calories a day (one piece of toast w/ butter, coffee, and a little milk, an 'energy' bar, or two grapefruit - doesn't really matter) - and you'll more than a pound a month. Food abuse? Give me a break.

 

Americans are more sedentary at work (and that's gonna continue), and rest (more screen time). Sugary foods, drinks in particular, are at hand everywhere now. The combination has produce predictable results.

 

I would guess that the obesity epidemic is already peaking. Awareness about what's in our food and how it's produced in growing rapidly - empowered by mandatory food labeling, which is extremely popular with consumer and absolutely essential for 'personal responsibility' to mean anything. In addition, mobile devices, the web, and a national database of food label information has given individuals the capability of measuring their intake and burn and thus get healthier. The tools are now there, for the first time, to do that in a fast, on the fly, convenient way.

 

Robust food labeling has enabled a growing percentage of Americans, no pun intended, to take charge of their health and their impact on the environment, animal welfare, and economic justice. The more robust the better: the infrastructure is already in place, so it really doesn't cost food producers jack shit to comply with more comprehensive labeling these days. They just don't want to for obvious marketing reasons.

 

Those consumers who care should know if a food is GMO, if a chicken is factory farmed (horrific), free range (absolute smokescreen bullshit for the former), or pasture raised (not bullshit - more omega 3's in the final product, etc.). They should be able to determine whether it's natural, organic, or factory. They should know if it's free trade or not, and that that designation is actually meaningful - all in addition to the caloric/nutrient information already provided.

 

The ideology, and that's all it is, that food producers should be somehow exempt from disclosing what's in their crap and how it's produced neither fits with a philosophy of personal (but not corporate????) responsibility, an informed population (DEFINITELY NOT on the republican agenda, considering how much they obviously despise public education).

 

My proposal? Add more robust labeling for that growing number of consumers who benefit (greatly) from it, mandatory nutrition education for kids, mandatory sports for kids (you're gonna do a sport, fatty...so pick one), and increased public education for adults on nutrition. Individuals (who generally would prefer to be healthier than not) and the free market (with a whole raft of new mobile based health management tools and a fantastic variety of healthy food choices) will do the rest, to the extent it's going to happen.

 

Of course, mandatory sports for kids would require funding more than just one sport per season (don't like track? Fuck you, kid!)...something Rfucks are always loath to do.

 

I also question the whole popular wisdom that 'other fat people are costing me money'. It's the old 'whack a mooch' fetish, popular among tea baggers and progressives alike. Often repeated...and very questionable. Since fat fucks die younger (they do) it's likely that, in the end, they actually cost us all less.

 

What's really at work here is that fat people disgust us, and the punishment junkies here would enjoy getting their pound (or 50) of flesh rather than enabling fatties to get healthier should they choose to do so. The tools are mostly in place already for that to happen, but, like all slow, long term trends, it's gonna take some time.

 

Be patient, manage your own fucked up life, and STFU about the legal lifestyle choices others make.

 

End of Manifesto.

 

 

[rob]

Exactly. People make choices and it's irrelevant if a Besserwisser like you doesn't like their choices. They don't care a whit for your opinions or social engineering projects. LYFAO all you want, assclown.

 

I can certainly respect the libertarian view on issues like this, even if I'm not 100% in agreement. But, I'm sure you're consistent, right? Heroin, steroids, antibiotics, cocaine, crack, etc. -- should all be legal, too, right? Making that shit illegal is just another social engineering project, isn't it?

 

I do, btw. I think every drug under the sun should be legal. Though, I'd support warning labels on some of them.

[Kimmo]

Kind of a long video, but it addresses health and obesity issues.

 

President Nixon, the sugar industry, and FDA don't look too good.

[video:youtube]

 

required viewing, for those who actually care about the issue beyond moralistic knee-jerkism.

 

 

[j_b]

The assertion that 'food abuse' is at play is, of course, patently ridiculous.

 

it's an important part of the equation for many obese people even if you have no clue. btw, nobody but the free market zealots claimed obesity only resulted from overeating.

 

Suddenly, America has become a nation of 'abusers'? Classic prohibition rhetoric. The idea that 'something needs to be done' is also questionable. Really? Why?

 

$200 billions per year in additional health care costs is only the tip of the iceberg of what's to come when youth that is currently obese grows older. Getting fat during old age isn't isn't the same as creating thousands of additional fat cells while growing up.

 

Obesity is another matter. First, there are really no 'bad foods'. Is lard bad? Not really, unless you eat a full tub of it regularly...which you probably could do if you were an avid marathoner.

 

there is abuse of some foods, which is bad for people and there is bad food that has deleterious effect on your body in any quantity (pretty much). Your ignorance won't change any of it.

 

The obesity epidemic has been slow in onset, like obesity itself. Eating an extra 3500 cal will gain you a pound of fat. Eat 200 extra calories a day (one piece of toast w/ butter, coffee, and a little milk, an 'energy' bar, or two grapefruit - doesn't really matter) - and you'll more than a pound a month. Food abuse? Give me a break.

 

Yeah, right, what a couple more glasses of alcohol everyday. Sheesh.

 

Also note there is issue with more than just obesity. Eating salt up the yingyang is as certain to kill you as overeating.

 

I also question the whole popular wisdom that 'other fat people are costing me money'. It's the old 'whack a mooch' fetish, popular among tea baggers and progressives alike. Often repeated...and very questionable. Since fat fucks die younger (they do) it's likely that, in the end, they actually cost us all less.

 

you are such an ignorant blowhard that it hurts.

[j_b]

anyone care to explain how my "acculturation" explains this typical day and where it belongs In the Grand Scheme of Things?

 

The issue is not really your degree of acculturation but your failure to acknowledge that people's ability to feed themselves properly depends on many factors out of their control, which includes their being aware that it is possible and desirable.

[tvashtarkatena]

Salt is only a problem if you've got hypertension or a similar condition that makes it so. It's not a problem for most people.

 

Obesity cost WHO $200 billion? Most folks get to pony up for their own health care, so what business is it of yours? Also, the situ seems to be keeping a bunch of folks in a paying job, no? Sounds like an excuse to tell other's how to live to me. You're not exactly on the top of my list of people to go to for lifestyle advice.

 

Is it even useful at this point out that you haven't come up with a single concrete policy proposal that would even remotely work in our universe? Not really your strong suit, I realize.

 

But hey, what do I know?

[tvashtarkatena]

BTW, Feck's also on the money. Sugar is by far the biggest culprit, here.

[tvashtarkatena]

i'm no timid mouse, afraid of the gov at every turn - nor am i a screaming republican fascist dickhead - i'm pro-legalization of drugs like you rob - doesn't seem we're generally so different in our politics - this one issue is an interesting wedge though

 

i do think, as did that one dickhead philosopher, that we do live more or less in the best possible world - it does worry me that THIS is what looks like

 

your idea of an A through F grade for foods sold in the usa is not so bad, though i don't see how that's going to be so very different from the current regime

 

Grading food: let's dumb the issue down further, shall we?

Or, let's create a highly subjective, relatively meaningless, and definitionally (define THAT!) complicated grading system ripe for manipulation by food manufacturers. ARE WE CODE YELLOW OR ORANGE TODAY?

 

Folks can easily learn what big words like 'calories per serving' and 'grams of fat' mean, I think. Gee...that's stuff's already on the box. Call me crazy!

[E-rock]

So, like, what's the official PR on all this, so that I can just blindly accept it and move on.

[tvashtarkatena]

The lesson here is this:

 

Regardless of your politics, somebody throws down a rack o baby backs in front you, you're gonna hit that shit like a mako shark.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Sounds like an excuse to tell other's how to live to me. You're not exactly on the top of my list of people to go to for lifestyle advice.

 

[j_b]

Salt is only a problem if you've got hypertension or a similar condition that makes it so. It's not a problem for most people.

 

denialism too, now? hypertension is only one condition CAUSED by high salt intake. Jeebus!

 

Obesity cost WHO $200 billion? Most folks get to pony up for their own health care, so what business is it of yours? Also, the situ seems to be keeping a bunch of folks in a paying job, no?

 

what terrible logic. I am not sure why I bother. Not only the money could be spend on a prodcutive investment like education, instead of fixing up people for whom there is unfortunately too often little hope (like putting a fucking band-aid on an open sore) but i doubt many people have the pocket money to pay the 10-100ks associated with major hospital stays (let's not even talk of the impact on the infrastructure or personnel)

 

 

Sounds like an excuse to tell other's how to live to me. You're not exactly on the top of my list of people to go to for lifestyle advice.

 

drivel

 

Is it even useful at this point out that you haven't come up with a single concrete policy proposal that would even remotely work in our universe? Not really your strong suit, I realize.

 

because education, information, regulations and taxation aren't concrete policy proposals? they are so far left, the Democratic party often advocate them, fuckwit.

 

But hey, what do I know?

 

clearly little on this topic.